I think that if this were to happen then there would be serious media interest. If members on here were to attempt it then someone should keep a diary of it. This is something that only happens once every 10-15 years, and if it weren’t for the fact that I don’t ski then I’d be first in the queue to do it. I’m sure the SMC would be interested, not to mention the papers. If two or three people do decide to do it then let me know.

By-the-way, the purist in me thinks the taxi option from Glen Feshie to Dalwhinnie looks far less attractive than retracing Chionophile’s steps in his epic Gaick adventure! It would add a day, but the satisfaction of doing it all on skis would outweigh this, surely?!

Palpable enthusiasm seeping from these posts. Both myself & my skis are too fat to make this trip...but somebody should give it a shot.

Anybody who has read W H Murray's books will recall evenings spent by Murray & chums, discussing great prospective adventures...then going out and executing them. (more by luck than judgement!) - This banter reminds me of those accounts by Murray.

If it could be patched together as a plan, I think Firefly is correct, it would get media attention, and some practical support from WH mates, as required.

Carpe Diem! (For non-latin speakers, it means "grasp the ornamental fish" )

can't even think about it on a board but if anyone trying needs support crew i'll help out if i can

HighRustler Wrote:
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> Moffatross, your current touring set up may need a little tweaking for this tour.
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I am sure you mean my £1.99 Esso head torch rather than the 130cm planks & skins.

There will always be endless and inconclusive argument about ski-mountaineering on the highest Scottish hills is best done with narrow light touring skis or heavier wider alpine skis. It really depends on what you like best when on a tour. If you want to get the most out of steep downhill runs, then take alpine skis. If you can forgo that and take most pleasure from swiftly crossing snow at gentle gradients or flat ground, take cross-country! However, there are so many steep descents on the haute route that I'd be inclined to favour alpine. I recall discussing this in depth with David Grieve, Derek Pyper and Mike Taylor of the pioneer party, and we all agreed about it. I did not fancy joining the haute route party because I always preferred a spontaneous tour where you just went off without any prior planning. However, that is just my personal view of what I like doing. I had nothing but admiration for the achievement of the pioneers, and would be very interested in knowing what is to happen if there is a fresh attempt. The question of avalanches has been raised, but it is not new. There was much publicity in the press recently about hoar on the snow surface being very unusual on the Scottish hills, and more typical of colder countries such as Canada and Scandinavia. That is inaccurate and misleading. Hoar frost on the snow surface is the norm after a calm frosty night, anywhere on the globe, and more common where the air humidity is higher. The hoar is an excellent surface for skiing, and in my experience signifies safe conditions for skiing if the hoar is lying on consolidated snow. Of course, if there is a fall of new snow above the hoar, that leads to avalanche-prone conditions. However, avalanches have always been an issue for any tour involving steep slopes in Scotland. The only reasonable step is to try to use ridges and other places less likely to be avalanche-prone. That is not always easy,But, for example, the March Burn and Tailors' Burn have been mentioned as skiing routes off Ben Macdui. Neither is safe in avalanche-prone conditions. Going further east than Allt Clach nan Taillear is a better bet in such conditions, near to the cliffs of Coire an Lochain Uaine. Good luck!

Very interested to hear your thoughts on nordic vs "fat skis" - Chionophile.
We were discussing how to approach hills with a long walk/ski-in yesterday - for example hills like Beinn a'bhuird and ben Avon.
we have used mountain bikes to approach these hills in spring, with skis on rucksac.
however with the deep snow cover at the moment this is impossible.

We were wondering in this deep snow whether it would be more efficient - faster and easier to use Nordic skis on the approach to the mountains on the access track - carrying bigger telemarker/Alpine on our rucksacs,
than just skinning in on wider telemark/alpine touring skis
the telemark skiers could use the same boots for both sets of skis

Hi all,

me and my partner are very interested in doing this, and can probably get time off work at short notice

Window of opportunity according to MWIS.?

"Permanently sub-freezing more or less everywhere for another 7 to 10 days – perhapslonger.

Snow showers toward the north and east will become confined to the weekend,with no more than flurries elsewhere."

I'd go for some fisher boundless or outabounds with a tele binding. They come as a waxing or waxless ski. I have a set of the waxing version. I've waxed them up with kick wax and used them in Norway on pisted tracks (but there too wide for the cut track). I've also skied blacks on them in France and had no probs. If you got the waxing version you could do the flats and rolling terrain with fast kick and glide, skins for the steep ups and they'd still be pretty good on the downhills

(Rob at Mountain Spirit would do you a good deal on a set as he's had some in for years not sure wether his are the waxing or waxless version.)

Interesting thoughts, telemarker. I've skied your route to Beinn a' Bhuird a number of times, from Glen Lui or Glen Derry and back, and from Claybokie up Quoich to the North Top and then down Ear Choire Sneachdach or Cnap a' Chleirich to Slugain, with light touring skis and with heavier wider skis. It was good with either, but I'd say marginally better with the touring skis. On a tour from Claybokie and over Cnap a' Chleirich I was with David Grieve of the haute route party, and on a tour from Glen Lui and down Ear Choire Sneachdach to Slugain I was with Mike Taylor of the haute route party, and Vero Wynne-Edwards. Both these trips were with touring skis, great for travelling easily on glens and plateau, but we had to take the steep descents slowly because the weather was a bit thick,the January afternoon well on, visibility poor in falling snow, and the snow surface not ideal because it was too fresh. That's when it's good to have heavier skis. I never contemplated taking two pairs of skis and likewise other skiers that I knew, just too much bother and weight. It's wonderful freedom to keep the same skis on for miles and miles, removing them, only if you need to cut steps or kick steps or hop on boulders across a river or gingerly descend a slope that might be prone to avalanche. Incidentally I mentioned the March Burn as an avalanche-prone place, and it certainly is, but I did descend it on my six tops tour, though not on skis because that would have been tempting avalanche fate too much compared with being on foot. The issue of waxed versus waxless skis is raied by dhorsley. I have skied on waxless skis but did not like their rasping noise on the snow, and felt more unstable with them on variable surfaces. I found my own performance on ascent and descent was far better (and faster) with waxed skis. If the weather is calm and sunny for the haute route attempt or any other long tour, as looks likely from the forecasts mentioned by HTH, then overheating and dehydration may well be a greater risk than hypothermia and frostbite, provided that one's fingers and toes are well protected.

sounds excited, my partner and I would definitely be up for this (work and assignment permitting)

Looking at the fischer site they now only do crown (waxless) with these being the widest [www.fischer-ski.com]
at 88 68 78.

My older version from this family of skis in a waxing set up (boundless wax) and are 98 69 88. I've used them for downhill waxed with glide full-length and for kick and glide touring with kick wax under the foot. I also have skins for them. I've seen that Rob has some of the older stock in last time I was in the shop. Mounted with a lightweight tele binding either the crown or waxing ski should be a good compromise for covering the distance and for downhill performance.

I have just remembered my shortie skins - or "plateau skins" - or kicker skins they are short kicker skins, than cover maybe 1/2 of ski base. they attach with usual glue and a curved metal plate, the concave side towards ski base and a nylon strap on top side at front - just forward of binding. the tail of skin has no clips, just glue.

in fact here is a link to them:

[www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com]


these skins allow you to travel faster and do required a lot less effort to get you moving. But they are limited on steeper climbs, but would be ideal for skinning in to a hill.
I used them to skin into Lochnagar last year and often use them on trips to macdui, sometimes i have got all the way from Cairn Lochan area to the summit on these skins.

Modern Dynafit bindings go a long way to help support the alpine ski option. Mine a 260g each, with modenr light but stiff(ish) wide alpine touring skis (I jhave a pair of Trabs that are light as a feather, stiff enough if its not ice and 88mm underfoot).


This sping I am doing a ski mountaineering race (the patrouille des Glaciers)., which follows the Alpine Haute Route from Zermatt to verbier. Lots of vertical and distance, but my dynafit setup will be fine. Indeed, 90% of racers will use dynafits.

The only question comes if there are ots of undulations, here you could be fast with a skinless nordic setup.

Attempt on Scottish Haute Route 23 to 31 March 1984

The 1978 traverse was written up in the SMC Club Journal and this inspired out attempt. All the familiar questions addressed on this forum were in our minds during preparation. Looking back on it technology has moved on a lot. We had no MWIS or SAIS forecasts, no mobiles and the write up was done on a typewriter!
Our intended overnights on the West to East route were Nevis summit shelter, Menach bothy, Ossian YH (open bothy in winter in those days), Culra, Dalwhinnie, Ruigh Aiteachan, Corrour, Hutchinson Hut and Corndavon bothy. The key passages were identified as the descent from the Ben and getting off the East side of Aonach Beag. We put in food and fuel drops near each of the bothies during the autumn. These were buried in the ground in carefully documented spots rather than the snow of the 1978 trip. We ate well and enjoyed good fires on the trip. There were various expressions of interest however we had a group of three Fiona Stewart (accomplished skier), Brian Collier (accomplished mountaineer) and myself Alan Sloan (all rounder). We had a non mountaineering driver (one of Brian’s sons) who took our car from Fort William to Dalwhinnie and subsequently to Braemar. We had a “liaison officer” Frank Waite who kept tabs on us, relayed information and fielded calls from interested parties including the rescue services when they were looking to trace the owner of gear unexpected left in a bothy that was unrelated to us.

In the end event we had various difficulties with the weather. The snow level was around 400m with more forecast which we hoped would lower this. We had a series of blizzards which kept us low down until Ossian. We learned afterwards that six pylons in Drumochter crumpled under the weight of ice in the gales. Brian developed an ankle injury nevertheless we carried on first to Dalwhinnie followed by a 14 hour day to Glen Feshie. The gales had created very unstable snow conditions. We passed some natural avalanches near the Allt nan Fearna (East of Meall Chuaich) at around 500m. While in Glen Feshie we could see a huge crown fracture in Coire Domhain on Mullach Clach a Bhlair from two miles away. We spent two nights in the bothy to recover from the day from Dalwhinnie and to go up to Mullach Clach a Bhlair to check out the snow. We decided a descent into Glen Geusachan would be dangerous (an opinion subsequently endorsed by Blythe Wright then of Glenmore Lodge) and skied round Glen Geldie and over the shoulder to Luibeg bothy and out to Linn of Dee the next day. We later heard that abandoned gear I mentioned earlier belonged to a person who was killed in an avalanche.

We enjoyed our 100 mile trip and it was hard going. Posts from people familiar with the Patrol de Glaciers and the OMM would fare better than we did. I prepared for a rerun in 1985 by putting in more food drops. However the snow conditions never looked right and we went for a five day trip around the Gorms at the end of April instead.

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