I hate to admit it but neither of us own one of these Now we are going further afield it is time to invest. I have been supplied with one a number of times abroad and had basic training but never used one in the UK.

The models vary so much in price, £100 to £400 I have seen on line. Is more expensive necessarily the best? Some of the mid price units have the same or even more features than the really expensive ones. We need one each so a saving of £100 or so on each is quite significant but I do not want to compromise on safety. Our application is back country skiing around the cairngorms in small groups, 2 - 4 people.

How accurate are the models with depth sounders, especially if using in the cairngorms with rocky granite outcrops/boulders under the snow?

Any advice?

Graeme

The Barryvox Element by Mammut is one of the highly rated ones (at around £250 or less online) - it has a big brother the Pulse which a lot of professionals use, but has added complexity which can confuse lesser mortals, so the Element has a simplified interface but is very easy to use. (guess which one I have )

Cheers, Geoff

Thanks Geoff. Thats the sort of information I am looking for, actual piratical use
Graeme

looked on snowshepard website other day for gloves and noticed their transceivers were same as tiso but with a discount too

Be Nice to Skiers, they have it hard enough already

Hi Graeme,
I have an Ortovox 3 and I like its simplicity. It also has a nice feel to it. I have had it for three or four years. It’s never been used for real but I have had some fun on some practice sessions on Cairngorm.
The thing is – I’m not sure if I would buy one again. I would now take a hard look at an airbag rucksack. When I was in Austria last year it seemed that all the guided groups were wearing these. They may have had transceivers too!! But having both is a lot of money for something that (hopefully) is never used.
Cheers
Feshiebridge

Anyone wearing a airbag will have a transceiver on too.

Transceiver (+ probe, shovel) is the essential, airbag is the nice to have

Give Davie Gun at [www.crankitupgear.com] a call I am sure he will be able to advise

In my experience over many off-piste Ski Freshtracks holidays with the SCGB is that familiarity with your transceiver is way and I mean way more important that the model. I have an Ortovox M2 which a lot of people think is rubbish, but because I am familiar with it and know how to use it, I am at least as fast and usually faster than people with much newer and much fancier models when doing practice searches. I have only been beaten once and they had an Ortovox S1+, and only then on their second go when they had worked out how to use it. In best car analogy mode its like arguing which is better a Ferrari or a Porsche when your current car is a Vauxhall Corsa.

The takeaway from this is that I would save my pennies buy something cheaper and actually spend time practising with it. If you are going to be buying more than one this is obviously much easier. I had to spend time trawling ebay till an old analogue one came up cheap. Just spending time in a park finding it while visible will make a huge difference to your search times.

The other point is that without a shovel and probe, a transceiver is basically a waste of time. Take a look at this page with documents the result of some testing. Not having a probe increased recovery time from on average 16 minutes to 26 minutes. Not having both and recovery times where over an hour.

[pistehors.com]

If you are needing all three then take a look around as there are some good deals on a package. For example here is a BCA DTS Tracker which is generally highly regarded with a shovel and probe for £160.

[www.snowsafe.co.uk]

My final note is that there was a fashion for plastic shovels some years ago. They are almost a total waste of space, as I have seen them break even on practice rescues, and from falls when been carried in the Alps! In the stonier ground of the highlands of Scotland I would hazard that they are not a good idea at all. These days everyone has gone back to metal, usually aluminium though mine is a titanium/magnesium alloy which for me was the selling point, my inner geek would not be satisfied with a plastic or even aluminium shovel when I could have titanium/magnesium alloy one

^ A lot of good sense here.

I'm going to stick a vote in for the Orthovox zoom+

its about as simple as simple gets and is really nice to hold and use. big solid switch on the back to turn on / off which automatically puts it into broadcast mode, and nice loud beeps to let you know it is through its start up checks (also supported by lights on the front)

again a nice big switch on top of the unit to push it into detect mode which then shows in very clear numbers and arrows direction and distance.

Turn off the detect mode and its straight back to broadcast simples.

Only downfall is you cannot flag multiple signals. but its a great cheap unit.

Graham you are more than welcome to borrow my old Ortovox to try out, Ask around the gang in Aviemore and borrow a few more then try them out. Again more than happy to let you use mine for searches as long as you don't lose it!!

The Barryvox, both models are excellent and the Ortovox 3+ really good too.

I don't rate the Pieps or BCA as much but that might be down to personal preference.

If you want to come along and test different models at Glenmore Lodge, click here: [ibsc.org.uk]

Thank you very much for all the input and links, it is going to take some time to wade through all the information. It is something I don't want to get wrong.
Graeme

I will declare an interest as I sell transceivers. Any 3 antenna digital beacon will be good and work well with each brand/model having strengths and weakness's but all being highly effective generally.

It's such an open question and often answers reflect the users anchoring to the brand and model they are familiar with and practice using, so of course it will be declared the best in their opinion.

Get among friends who have beacons already and try different ones. The training park at Glencoe is a good place to do this as there are deep and shallow burials and each beacon (transceiver) performs differently on different ranges, depths and scenarios. I wouldn't get hung up on the bells and whistles including the mark/flag feature which was developed for guided groups. Knowing how to search for multiple burials using appropriate search techniques is more important as sometimes marking fails and when it does its a disaster.

IMHO the Element is very good and maybe even better than the Pulse which can be slow giving lots of stop and standstill and meanwhile the the guy with a Tracker 2 or 3 is racing past them nailing it. The winning thing for me on the Pulse though is the analog mode which gives great range and is really handy acoustically in multiple burials that are hard to work out. I sell a lot of the Ortovox Zoom+ and 3+. The 3+ I can highly recommend with the new software as its simple and fast, has the smart antenna, a built in Recco strip, and if you really want a mark feature its version seems reliable in training. The Arva's are very good as well, especially the new ones. In particular the Neo which although now a bit older is very fast. The Pieps is also a very good beacon. Having said I declare an interest I sell ARVA, Ortovox and BCA. This includes ABS, shovel probes etc and providing training.

So the 3 antenna ones are all good and it will depend on what features you want, the money and if you want a fast simple one, a slower complex one with lots of features, or something middle of the road. For me I go for the speed of the processor every time and compensate for loss of range with narrower search strips, get some good training and practice on search technique for multiple burials without using the mark feature before relying on it and do lots of practice. Its not a St Christopher on the car dash. When you need to get it out in anger your own head will be overloading and its speed and training that saves the day, not lots of features you cant find, a processor that wont update fast enough or a display that cant be seen. Have a look at this link which although a bit old is still good

[www.alpenverein.de]


www.crankitupgear.com
www.crankitupgear.blogspot.co.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/CranKitUp-Gear-Glencoe
BCA, Ortovox and ARVA Retailer and Avalanche Educator



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 16.22hrs Sun 13 Nov 16 by CranKitUpGear.

Thanks Davy for your comprehensive advice and the links, I had not seen your blog before,very informative and useful.
Graeme