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JollyDee


Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 2018
Last Visited: 11:03
11th Aug 2019
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 14.14hrs on Sun 21 Oct 18
"Perhaps he's felt the heat from the real local businesses, skiers and community who are beyond fed up and now just angry with the continuing shambles that is CairnGorm Mountain under the ownership and (lack of) stewardship of HIE."

Cairngorm Mountain is owned by David Gorton, a nice man who is trying to do his bit for the environment. To date he has put £1.9 million of his own personal money into CM to pay wages etc but given all the whingeing that goes on I doubt he will continue.

Then what?
alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 14.25hrs on Sun 21 Oct 18
JollyDee Wrote:
"Perhaps he's felt the heat from the real local businesses, skiers and community who are beyond fed up and now just angry with the continuing shambles that is CairnGorm Mountain under the ownership and (lack of) stewardship of HIE."

Cairngorm Mountain is owned by David Gorton, a nice man who is trying to do his bit for the environment. To date he has put £1.9 million of his own personal money into CM to pay wages etc but given all the whingeing that goes on I doubt he will continue.

Then what?


David Gorton does NOT own CairnGorm. The Cairngorm Estate, ie the North side of the mountain including the Ski Area and all fixed infrastructure is owned by Highlands and Islands Enterprise.

All directorships and much of the accounting, HR and marketing management functions where shifted not just from the local area but out of Scotland, while business administration costs soared (charges for group services and that accounts for most of the money owed - internal group charging). Perhaps HIE could explain how the transfer of jobs and money from Strathspey to outwith Scotland is strengthening the Aviemore community?
01cookjk


Posts: 141
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:09
6th Apr 2021
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 14.31hrs on Sun 21 Oct 18
alan Wrote:

I've heard from a season ticket holder who went for a walk around the ski area yesterday and in their own words they were raging about the state of the entire place by the time they returned to their car.



Glad im not the only one who is angry.
Its not good for my blood preasure either!!!

When they (NR) are gone, there will be cause for relief. If HIE somehow starts to turn back on its destructive ways, well then I'll be ready to celebrate, hopefully everyone else will be. I have a dream that Aviemore will thrive once again and that the mountain will be packed out with happy skiers, but I fear it may be decades away or never at all. This said, it means I will give them my full support, providing change happens. I'm a hater for a reason, and the reason is them, not me.
JollyDee


Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 2018
Last Visited: 11:03
11th Aug 2019
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 10.42hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
David owns Cairngorm Mountain the company. Who said anything about him owning Cairngorm? If NR(David Gorton) goes do you think there is anyone else around that is going to put in £1.9million out of his own pocket to pay the staff's wages???





Edited 2 times. Last edit at 11.05hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by JollyDee.
alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 10.47hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
Lol you’ve so little idea your probably purple helmet reincarnated. If you think David Gorton is paying the staff wages you need to lay off the fairy dust.
JollyDee


Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 2018
Last Visited: 11:03
11th Aug 2019
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 11.04hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
Have you even looked at the latest accounts before commenting?
SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 11.15hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
JollyDee Wrote:
David owns Cairngorm Mountain the company. Who said anything about him owning Cairngorm? If NR(David Gorton) goes do you think there is anyone else around that is going to put in £1.9million out of his own pocket to pay the staff's wages???





Edited 2 times. Last edit at 12.05hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by JollyDee.


Cairngorm Mountain Ltd which it the company that operates the ski resort....(CGM Ltd)….is wholly owned by "Natural Assets Investments Ltd".

Natural Assets Investments Ltd has one person with significant control of the voting rights etc..

David Gorton with between 25% & 50% of the voting rights.


However Natural Assets Investments Ltd took out a Debenture with HSBC on 28/11/2014 over the whole of the assets of the company...

[document-api-images-prod.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com]


HSBC own the company..NOT David Gorton....


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---
alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 11.24hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Have you even looked at the latest accounts before commenting?


Yes I have and for more than just CML. Natural Assests Investments Ltd is insolvent to the tune of £35 million (ie negative net worth). CML represents the majority of the group income, so it seems all but certain that NAIL won’t walk away voluntarily from CairnGorm. Thus they will have to be removed to get both the company and estate into community ownership.

Perhaps if you have studied the accounts you could explain why despite removing directors from the area and reducing management functions at the mountain, admin expenses have risen very substantially as proportion of turnover.

Beyond that, if you wish to keep commentating please provide a valid email address instead of hiding behind a temporary email from sharklasers.com !
SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 11.24hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
JollyDee Wrote:
Have you even looked at the latest accounts before commenting?


Here you go, financial statements in a nice graphical form, for the parent company of CGM Ltd.

Natural Assets Investments Ltd...has a net worth "-" (negative) £36.3million...


[companycheck.co.uk]


That's right folks the company that own CGM Ltd is so far in debt that even when they have finished selling off everything down to the last bog rolls they still owe £36.3million !!


& who holds the floating charge on ALL the assets on the parent company...that's right HSBC.


So sh1t hits fan HSBC will be called in & will sell off anything they can, & I doubt HIE will be able to say much.


I used to be a company Director (of my own company) & understand accounts etc...you obviously DO NOT....

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 5 times. Last edit at 11.33hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.
malks


Posts: 93
Joined: Jan 2008
Last Visited: 16:49
16th Feb 2021
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 12.53hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
also surely NAIL/ Cairngorm Mountain dont actually 'own' any of the physical assets up on the mountain, they only have the contract to manage these assets?
Cairngorm Skier


Guest
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 13.11hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
alan Wrote:
Lol you’ve so little idea your probably purple helmet reincarnated. If you think David Gorton is paying the staff wages you need to lay off the fairy dust.


Wow what a way to welcome a new poster??? Though thanks for showing up the nasty piece of work you are, this is just typical of the kind of abuse and attitude Cairngorm staff have to put up with from these bitter malcontents.

Agree with Harley, time for decisive action by CML like Nevis took with the back corries guy and all the ski areas must have the balls to stand behind CML and Nevis on these decisions.

These whingers clearly dont have any understanding of how challenging providing any skiing on Cairngorm is. The staff work their guts out for ungrateful cretins like you. Save them the agro and **** off if you don't like Cairngorm, more space for those who appreciate the effort and love having a local mountain.
JollyDee


Posts: 16
Joined: Oct 2018
Last Visited: 11:03
11th Aug 2019
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 13.17hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
CM spent 1 million more than it earned last year. Follow the money as to where that came from and you arrive at David Gorton. That's all you need to know.
alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 13.45hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
JollyDee Wrote:
CM spent 1 million more than it earned last year. Follow the money as to where that came from and you arrive at David Gorton. That's all you need to know.


CML lost £1m does not equate to having yet actually spent it! The money could be outstanding to suppliers, contractors etc who have longer waits for payment as a result or through charges by the parent company (NAIL) for group services.

The later being charges to CML which when paid up extract money from the Strathspey economy in place of employment that used to exist on CairnGorm Mountain. That is to the detriment of the Strathspey economy, when HIE's remit is to strengthen Highland Communities.

There could be a case for those changes though, had it reduced the cost base of the business so it was more efficient and thus able to put more of the revenue back into enhancing the business offering on CairnGorm.

However, the reality is that compared to the last full financial year before NAIL took ownership of CML the 2017 administrative expenses as a proportion of turnover DOUBLED from 18% of turnover in financial year end March 2014 to 36% in year end Dec 2017 [Note = accounting dates were changed from fiscal year to calendar years]. An absolute increase of £400k in admin costs when turnover dropped by £1m!

Natural Retreats we have been told gave an undertaking to HIE to extract no more than 10% of profit from the mountain, but there is no profit because revenue extraction happens well before the bottom line in this sort of group setup.

The unpalatable reality for Natural Retreats and HIE is that under Natural Retreat's CairnGorm in winter 2017/18 had lost 40% of it's market compared to the previous decade before Natural Retreats arrival.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13.52hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by alan.
SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 14.47hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
Cairngorm Skier Wrote:
These whingers clearly dont have any understanding of how challenging providing any skiing on Cairngorm is. The staff work their guts out for ungrateful cretins like you. Save them the agro and **** off if you don't like Cairngorm, more space for those who appreciate the effort and love having a local mountain.


Unfortunately some of us on this forum DO know how difficult it is to work in the weather & to deal with customers & run a ski business in Scotland...

& Alan is one of them....& so am I


Hell I used to deal direct with CGML before NR/NAIL took over & knew the staff there pretty well & the in's & outs of what went on "behind closed doors"...

Then NR/NAIL took over & basically the new management took over with their own ideas as nobody who had worked there for decades obviously knew anything about running ski resort in Scotland...

& those staff with any sense left....

Funny that the other ski resorts with smaller funding, less snow catchment etc have taken a greater market share (of total Scottish skidays etc) now & CGML has lost a huge chunk..

& ALL since NR/NAIL took over....

You should make a good PowerPoint presentation on those facts along with the £36.3million that your boss/parent company owes....


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 14.47hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.
tupp


Posts: 234
Joined: Apr 2010
Re: 2017-18 skier numbers
Date Posted: 15.14hrs on Mon 22 Oct 18
Such a negative post. Are you management? Bears all the hallmarks of a certain style.....



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 15.21hrs Mon 22 Oct 18 by tupp.
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