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alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 19.09hrs on Sat 29 Sep 18
The idea of a rope tow from the col between the Cairnwell Triple and T-bar does have some merit, particularly if the quad isn't going to happen in the short term as it would allow a better balance of demand between triple chair and T-bar. But the slope profile may not be suitable for a single span rope or handle tow.

It would be useful for more advanced riders, but it wouldn't help beginners get to the Bunny Run, as it's a steep and exposed slope down from the triple chair to the col.

Looking at the mountain a chair up Carn Aosda is appealing, but it would be significantly more exposed than the proposed Cairnwell Quad, the Cairnwell T-bar and Chair are aligned with, but also largely sheltered from the prevailing SW winds where as the Carn Aosda T-bar is fully exposed to SW'lys as a cross wind.

The number of days lost due to wind of a modern chairlift on the same line as the Cairnwell T-bar is going to be less than many think. The limit for the Glencoe Access Chair is 50mph across the line, the West Wall Poma through the Top Basin on CairnGorm is struggling in winds out of the West quadrant over 40mph at the funicular tunnel, the Ciste T-bar isn't far behind usually. There may even be days a Cairnwell Quad could run that the T-bar wouldn't.

It's also the case that the RaceTracks and / or Bunny Run and Butchart's can hold snow when the uptrack isn't complete.






Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.11hrs Sat 29 Sep 18 by alan.
jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 11.59hrs on Mon 1 Oct 18
calumshep Wrote:

Is it not the case that Scotland is more frequently battered by more violent winds than the ski areas on the continent? I'm all for modernisation of the lift infrastructure, but aiming to have the same small ratio of surface lifts as other European resorts might not be the "right", or indeed only way of modernising the infrastructure.


But if we don't then even more people will simply stop visiting. I know plenty of people who would rather spend their money on the continent that use surface lifts in Scotland.

The first rule of any business is to meet customer expectations otherwise you won't get repeat customers. The unavoidable fact of the matters is that in 2018 the general skiing/snowboarding public expect something other than surface lifts.

Further modern chairlifts are much more tolerant of wind speeds. In general 40mph winds are not a problem, and lets be honest at this point 99% of sane people have either gone home or not bothered to turn up in the first place.

This mindset of surface lifts in Scotland so a handful of nutters can go skiing in 50mph winds is not good for the long term prosperity of the industry.
jabuzzard


Posts: 885
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Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 12.16hrs on Mon 1 Oct 18
01cookjk Wrote:

Ive probably mentioned this before, but a small rope tow going UP to the top of the cairnwell T-bar would be an excellent addition, as this would allow users of the Cairnwell Tripple to acsess the bunny run WITHOUT the need for another chair, providing a snow base can be maintained down to the chairlift.



Not this old hair brained chestnut again. In general nobody cable of getting from the top of the Cairnwell triple to the bottom of such a rope two would be particularly interested in using the Bunny run. It's a steep if short red and the Bunny run is a long easy green. So short of getting the dynamite out and reshaping the Cairnwell summit (good look getting planing permission for that) it would be a pointless waste of time. If you can ski off the top of the Cairnwell chair then you can ski directly to the bottom of the Cairnwell t-bar and catch that up if you perversely want to ski the Bunny run.

Further to put in a rope tow you would need to get power to the location because right now there is none, spend time and money maintaining the uptrack instead of pisteing the pistes. Finally you are likely going to have to man it with staff which is an expensive on going cost..

So the alternative is to replace the steep aging t-bar, a type of lift that is widely hated by the snow sports public, with a modern chairlift the type the public like, which means there is no uptrack to maintain and gives easy access to one of the longest green runs in Scotland is a wildly more sensible proposition.

Really there seems to be an attitude of not wanting the ski centres to spend money on improving their uplift on these forums.
PeterS


Posts: 980
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 12:21
13th Mar 2021
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Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 12.35hrs on Mon 1 Oct 18
Should we classify the Funicular as a surface or non surface lift ?!

I think its quite sensible for Glenshee to take longer over this big decision. They already have three chairlifts, more than adequate uplift capacity and seemingly no urgency to replace the Cairnwell Tbar. Another winter season will give them a clearer perspective on demand and available finance. They may also want to consider the impact of the new snow factories at the Lecht and Glencoe.


jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 13.54hrs on Mon 1 Oct 18
PeterS Wrote:
Should we classify the Funicular as a surface or non surface lift ?!



It's surface, but it's little better than a t-bar. In fact give current issues it's facing a t-bar is probably better.

Personally I prefer lifts that don't require me to faff about taking my skis on/off, allow me to sit down and rest a bit, and optionally (with a hood) get some shelter. I also consider gravity assisted lift interchange to be important too.

Note I have given up and headed back to the hotel on the continent when big fast chairs with hoods are still running because it was just utterly miserable in the howling gale that was blowing.
PeterS


Posts: 980
Joined: Feb 2003
Last Visited: 12:21
13th Mar 2021
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Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 11.34hrs on Tue 2 Oct 18
Lovely job on the Caenlochan base station.

from this [www.instagram.com] to this [www.facebook.com]

Glenshee are very self reliant and repeatedly demonstrate that they can refurbish their own lifts. That means they are less exposed to external risks such as cost overruns, project delays or indeed technical failure of new lifts.....such as funicular railways !

It also means that they retain the skills within their business and that most of their spending stays in the Scottish economy.



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 12.45hrs Thu 4 Oct 18 by PeterS.
PeterS


Posts: 980
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Last Visited: 12:21
13th Mar 2021
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Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 21.20hrs on Thu 4 Oct 18
[m.facebook.com]

New pylon going in on Caenlochan.
01cookjk


Posts: 141
Joined: Jan 2014
Last Visited: 09:09
6th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 16.57hrs on Sat 6 Oct 18
jabuzzard Wrote:


Not this old hair brained chestnut again. In general nobody cable of getting from the top of the Cairnwell triple to the bottom of such a rope two would be particularly interested in using the Bunny run. It's a steep if short red and the Bunny run is a long easy green. .


Oi! Jabuzzard! Who are you calling a old hair brained chesnut?

Firstly, Im 28.
Secondly, my hair, and my brain are in full working order.
Thirdly, Im a human, and wish to be treated as one. ..

You mention steep? Steep??? A few years ago I skied from the chairlift to the dip before the Cairnwell T-Bar on skies with 3-Pin Cross Country Bindings (I was ski-touring with XC skies around the area) and managed to ski down that run just fine.

I don't believe it is any steeper than the claybokie and probably more gentle than the run down from the baddoch chair!!!
jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 17.48hrs on Sun 7 Oct 18
01cookjk Wrote:
jabuzzard Wrote:


Not this old hair brained chestnut again. In general nobody cable of getting from the top of the Cairnwell triple to the bottom of such a rope two would be particularly interested in using the Bunny run. It's a steep if short red and the Bunny run is a long easy green. .

Oi! Jabuzzard! Who are you calling a old hair brained chesnut?

Firstly, Im 28.
Secondly, my hair, and my brain are in full working order.
Thirdly, Im a human, and wish to be treated as one. ..


The idea is the old hair brained chestnut. Ever since Glenshee first proposed the chairlift people have come here and posted that they should put in a rope tow and use the new triple chair instead.


You mention steep? Steep??? A few years ago I skied from the chairlift to the dip before the Cairnwell T-Bar on skies with 3-Pin Cross Country Bindings (I was ski-touring with XC skies around the area) and managed to ski down that run just fine.

I don't believe it is any steeper than the claybokie and probably more gentle than the run down from the baddoch chair!!!


You can measure the gradient using an OS map and it is too steep for a green run.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:43
29th Feb 2024
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Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 21.08hrs on Sun 7 Oct 18
The exposure both in terms of adjacent steep ground and in weather terms is another factor against encouraging beginners up that route. Also the rope tow would itself be quite challenging. Another triple would suffice but a quad is better for ski school and families.
awrightski


Posts: 158
Joined: Jan 2016
Last Visited: 10:02
2nd Dec 2020
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 10.27hrs on Tue 9 Oct 18
I have a question regarding non-surface lifts in Scotland.

I've seen it time and time again on this forum and discussions with people at the resorts that chairlifts are not suitable for high altitude in Scotland. This was particularly the case when Glencoe announced the new Plateau chair and people were asking whether there would ever be a chairlift to the top.

I've also seen it time and time again that its basically impossible to ski in wind above 40mph or if it is then its so deeply unpleasant the surface lifts aren't open anyway.

With modern chairlifts having a wind tolerance above that of 98% of the customers why is it still an argument that Chairlifts are not suitable for Scotland?

(apologies if this has been answered before)
jabuzzard


Posts: 885
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16th Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 17.41hrs on Tue 9 Oct 18
awrightski Wrote:
I have a question regarding non-surface lifts in Scotland.

I've seen it time and time again on this forum and discussions with people at the resorts that chairlifts are not suitable for high altitude in Scotland. This was particularly the case when Glencoe announced the new Plateau chair and people were asking whether there would ever be a chairlift to the top.

I've also seen it time and time again that its basically impossible to ski in wind above 40mph or if it is then its so deeply unpleasant the surface lifts aren't open anyway.

With modern chairlifts having a wind tolerance above that of 98% of the customers why is it still an argument that Chairlifts are not suitable for Scotland?

(apologies if this has been answered before)


I imagine that some of it is down to the fact that they are not "new" chairlifts. So the fact that a brand new high speed quad detachable is good to go in 40mph winds counts for very little if you are buying a 20 year old second hand fixed grip chair.

Further I think that some people are stuck in the past. That is because once upon a time they didn't make sense they keep going without checking to see if the presumptions that pushed you to make a particular decision are still accurate. It's a very easy trap to fall into, and something in my day job working in I.T. you have to be very careful not to do because things are changing so fast.
igloo4you


Posts: 522
Joined: Oct 2009
Last Visited: 16:28
22nd Apr 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 19.50hrs on Tue 9 Oct 18
Awrightski/jabuzzard,

Main reason you are unlikely to ever see chairlifts running to the summit at Glencoe. -

1) It makes a heck of a costly mess when a chairlift derails (especially a fixed grip one). Conversely when a T-bar derails no damage is done and the lift is back operational very quickly. In big winter storms our upper mountain lifts are regularly derailed, thankfully they are T-bars not Chairlifts.

Also from a personal point of view some of my best days at Glencoe have been when winds on the summit runs are way above any chairlift tolerance yet in the relative shelter of the Main Basin we have enjoyed fresh tracks every run as the snow drifts around our feet. These amazing days are only possible thanks to T-bars.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.51hrs Tue 9 Oct 18 by igloo4you.
awrightski


Posts: 158
Joined: Jan 2016
Last Visited: 10:02
2nd Dec 2020
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 11.30hrs on Wed 10 Oct 18
Thanks both,

I guess ideally a modern detachable chair with the chairs brought to the bottom at night up the side of the Spring run would be useful, retaining surface lifts on windy days up the main basin. Although I understand you have terms of use restrictions on visible lift infrastructure on that side of the Mountain.

Other than Coe I would like to see more of it elsewhere.


As a side note Andy, can you give any more info on the suggested (in the other thread) snow making for the low access run/new road? absolute game changer.
TroutWrestler


Posts: 162
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 18:01
16th Feb 2021
Re: Summer 2018 Improvements
Date Posted: 17.44hrs on Wed 10 Oct 18
I like the T bar on the Main Basin. Andy is 100% right about those special windblown days with constant freshies. A T bar is good for a natter with a random partner, and I can try out my "Just got out of jail..." patter on a another victim, sorry, stranger.
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