The information gathering is done by a small team at the SCGB office. They get the information from the resorts themselves and the leader in the resorts where they have them. The leaders are not reponsible for any of the snow depth information, that comes from the resort. The leaders report on the weather of the day and their interpretation of the snow conditions on and off piste.

You can believe what you want. I however will go on what I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Specifically the SCGB rep has a daily snow report to return which certainly in the past included snow depths. They are supposed to make their own which I have personally seen being done. I have also personally seen the rep look at what the resort is saying and just using that figure.

It's a few years now since I last skied with a rep (as opposed to a Ski Freshtracks holiday leader) but as far as I am aware it has not changed.

The important thing however is to remember when interpreting the snow depth numbers is that refer only to the groomed pistes and nothing else.

Ive been a ski club leader since 2008, not once have i ever been asked to give snow depth in a report.

The certainly did in the past. My last fixed point would be 2006 where I saw a leader just giving the resort depths and in 2004 I saw a leader actually measuring them.

Firstly, on the technical point of what SCGB snow depths actually mean, the words "an indication" (see pasted quote above) clearly suggest something different to "a measurement". The Club stresses that the stated depths are "representative", rather than necessarily actual (i.e. measured). However, without getting too bogged down in the semantics of this, I'd argue that the indicator on a car is an unequivocal statement of truth (unless the driver turns left when indicating right). Likewise, a piece of litmus paper or a thermometer are indicators of actuality ... as are calibrated measurement poles for measuring snow depths. One assumes that where large numbers of competing ski resorts are submitting daily snow depth figures, that the pooled information (e.g. from France, Switzerland or Austria) is measured rather than 'indicated'. If there isn't some agreed basis of calibration, the resorts would surely be permanently at war over their rival figures.

--------

Frank McCusker, the new Scottish CEO of the SCGB ...



... is profiled in this month's Ski+Board (the Club's magazine). Amusingly, the piece (by the magazine's editor Arnie Wilson) is illustrated with a photo of Frank and Franz (Klammer) at a recent golfing jolly for the British ski travel trade. McKlammer is wearing a kilt (what does an Austrian wear under his?), whereas Frank is trousered. The photo was taken at Hendon Golf Club in north London - where obviously any Austrian ex-downhill ski champion would wish to be kilted! - and is of no consequence at all [So I don't really know why I've mentioned it.]

What IS interesting is that Frank mentions his skiing career starting in Andorra in his mid twenties, followed by the French Alps (Meribel's mentioned) and British Columbia (Whistler). Clearly an upwardly mobile skier! [he's also a qualified rugby coach]

Frank's skiing ability is neither here nor there, as far as I can see (in terms of competence to turn around the Ski Club's fortunes) but Arnie links it to mountains 500 miles north of Hendon. He writes ...

"So what sort of skier is he? I suggest that the Americans tend to overstate their skills while the British usually underplay theirs. "So would you like my answer to be from a Scotsman's perspective?" he asks, with a twinkle in his eye."

"Well, they say this if you learnt to ski in Scotland, you can ski anywhere, I remind him ... "

Now, there's some ambiguity in those words. Is Frank saying that his "Scotsman's perspective" was forged on the uncompromising terrain of Glencoe, Nevis, Cairngorm, Glenshee or ... err ... The Lecht? Does Arnie's comment confirm that Frank actually learned his skills on these slopes?

I'll leave everyone to form their own judgement until we learn more!

Meanwhile, if you'd like to hear Frank's friendly voice, he's 04:00 minutes into this Snowcast video ...

[www.skiclub.co.uk]




Edited 2 times. Last edit at 17.54hrs Sun 4 Nov 12 by David Goldsmith.

I don't need to believe anything, because I know.

I am a ski club leader and on my training course I was told that all snow depth information would be supplied by the resort and that we did not need to concern ourselves with gathering that data.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 10.21hrs Wed 7 Nov 12 by skir67.

failed on that one !

Then it has changed over the years, as I have personally seen Ski Club reps filling in returns both measuring and just reporting what the resort says.

Although I first joined the Ski Club of Great Britain in 1962 (am currently baking a very large white cake, bearing no resemblance to an elephant, to celebrate the 50 years) ...

... I can't comment from first-hand observation on the question of Ski Club reps measuring snow depths.

What is certainly the case (essentially pre-internet) is that the Club used to publish its rep reports - principally in The Times newspaper - as definitive 'primary source' information. So I'd guess that the snow depths were either measured by the reps, or that the reps were happy with what they were representing.

Then things became more competitive and skiers demanded reports from many resorts where the Club wasn't stationed (historically the Club has usually repped in 30-40 resorts, sometimes for part of the season only).

So, from the 1980s (as I recall), the Club's rep reports were published alongside reports from tourist offices, in two different and distinct lists.

The Club says:

"What makes the Ski Club's snow reports different is that it's not just automated data from the resorts - we have a team that gathers and checks the information every day. This is how we can deliver unbiased and accurate snow reports to you."
[Ski TV Snowcast, 26 Nov 2010]

There are several aspects of that statement that I don't quite understand but am sure that everything will become as clear as the waters of Loch Morlich in due course!

It has changed but leaders have not been asked to measure snow depths since at least 2007 (when I started for them).

[Second open letter to Frank McCusker, CEO, Ski Club of Great Britain]

Dear Frank

As you may be aware from all the media reports over the past week (BBC, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, Guardian etc.), Cairngorm kicked off its ski season on Saturday 1 December with runs from the top of the mountain to the base station. The Lecht also opened, with several lifts running.

The only information source not trailing this, or reporting on it, was the Ski Club of GB. The Club's weekly 'snow overview' of 29 November made no mention of the projected opening of the Scottish ski areas, and the Club's Snowcast TV bulletin of 30 November similarly ignored the situation. The Club published no news report at the end of last week with the good news about Scotland.

[www.skiclub.co.uk]

As for the snow reporting, these [attachments below] were the reports for Cairngorm and The Lecht on 30 November, one day before the ski areas opened. They stated that 0cm of snow had fallen on these two areas in the past 7 days. They remain current, as of today 2 December (Sunday).

When I wrote to you last July (see opening post of this thread), I assumed that the Scottish snow reporting would receive serious attention. There is an extremely simple solution to this - for the Club to stop publishing misleading or false information, and simply to provide a link on its website to this one (Winterhighland) and the Visit Scotland website which carries the official snow reporting from the ski areas themselves.

Please let Scottish skiers know how you are addressing this.

Regards

David Goldsmith (SCGB member)



Edited 4 times. Last edit at 00.31hrs Mon 3 Dec 12 by David Goldsmith.

Attachments: Cairngorm 30.11.12.JPG (33kB)   Lecht 30.11.12.JPG (32kB)  

Best of luck DG but it happens year after year after year and personally I think you're flogging a dead horse with this bunch of SE England based feckers!

It looks more like general all-round sluggishness on the part of SCBG (rather than any anti-Scottish bias), as several (open) resorts in France are also showing 0cm snow and closed.

Out of interest, why do people join SCGB? I have considered it several times and have never found a compelling reason to do so.

You've had three attempts at editing this and still you keep saying December instead of November!!!

I hope you didn't send it to him with these mistakes in? Or you're going to look a bit of a noddy aren't you

I guess the official response to that question could be given by quoting the percentages of members who quote the following factors as 'main reason for joining' [SCGB 2012 annual report]:
Leader service (reps) 29% ... Discounts 27% ... Freshtracks (club holidays) 11% ... Insurance 7% ... Snow reports 7% ... Information department 5% ... Social/events 3% ... No reason given 10%

Now, what I find strange about that research is that it doesn't expressly identify the club's extensive website as a motivating factor. Nor does it identify the club's magazine, on which over £240,000 is spent on annual production costs.

Those who use websites like this, or snowHeads, or multiple ski-related sections of Facebook - and other ski-related social media - know that the sense of 'club' in the electronic era has changed somewhat. Centrally organised clubs are giving way to diverse communities which can self-organise and mutually-inform.

I sense that the conventional ski club model is becoming redundant. Skiing will remain a very sociable sport, but with looser and more variable organisation. But people's principal need in skiing will always be the best information on which to make expensive decisions!



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 00.27hrs Mon 3 Dec 12 by David Goldsmith.