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SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 14.56hrs on Sun 26 Nov 17
Really???

WTF is up with NT? I mean how stupid can you get, talk about shooting yourself in the foot with both barrels...

I suggest you look into your land/access rights in any deeds etc for the club house, as they may start even more stupid things.

I would also report this to the Police as harassment & wanton vandalism.

Those cameras have been there for years doing a job, nothing has changed therefore NT has to leave them alone as your cameras, on your property.


I bet they want to get all the IP address route info via their webcams for their marketing purposes which is why no other cams are to be allowed..I recon


To "growwild" these aren't posh people.... just bullies who have bought into the USA middle management PowerPoint presentation hype & have great ideas with aggressive strategies, & asset stripping which is what I posed when NT first took over as I dug around their corporate accounts....

anyway if the Ski club needs help etc email me....I just wish I wasn't so close to CG as a resort...otherwise I would boycott even more than I do...

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 16.20hrs on Sun 26 Nov 17
growwild Wrote:
No point in continuing to promote the place if ya want change up there, help them along their merry way!


Actually - I reckon what would wind them up most is to continue promoting the place for snowsports ;-)

Make sure this website gets more traffic than their own.
For many people winterhighland is the one stop shop for Scottish snow reports.

[www.haggistrap.co.uk]

alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 16.26hrs on Sun 26 Nov 17
We won't know the snow level tonight as the fronts come through with the SSC AWS out of service and CML won't make public the data from the TechnoAlpin AWS - the data is useful to and used by far more than just downhill skiers who are paying customers of CML.



Scott.Duncan


Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2013
Last Visited: 08:34
28th Nov 2017
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 09.50hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Totally agree with all sentiments you guys are posting, its an absolute disgrace. This is yet more reason for people to join the community group and give them every chance possible to rectify the injustice to not only the mountain but the local area.They need member numbers and you can join for free as an associate member at Aviemore and Glenmore Community trust Ltd.
please guys we need to get our mountain back

alan


Posts: 10767
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 18:24
26th Feb 2024
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Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.29hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
The following statement issued by CairnGorm Mountain Ltd on Facebook is not factual.

CML could not have removed the WH webcams from the exterior of the SSC hut because the webcams were internal and looked through windows. Thus they could only have been removed from service by entry to the SSC Hut.






Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12.30hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by alan.

Attachments: Screen Shot 2017-11-27 at 11.50.47.png (119kB)  
carsey


Posts: 400
Joined: Jan 2016
Last Visited: 17:11
22nd Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.35hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
haha, what a set of idiots. I seen a post above saying they wanted the IP traffic to run through their website for the hits and the post above looks like it was true.

Id be going up, re-instating the cam and sticking another one out there to piss them off.

mr bell


Guest
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.38hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
'Shortly before 10.30am on Friday 24th November CairnGorm Mountain Ltd staff entered the private property of the Scottish Ski Club without the Club's permission and took our webcams out of service - fulfilling a threat made by the General Manager in a phone call on Thursday afternoon.'


Without permission?

one of you is fibbing, we can't be sure who now can we..?

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 12.56hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
alan Wrote:
The following statement issued by CairnGorm Mountain Ltd on Facebook is not factual.

CML could not have removed the WH webcams from the exterior of the SSC hut because the webcams were internal and looked through windows. Thus they could only have been removed from service by entry to the SSC Hut.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12.30hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by alan.



I'd post up the correct facts on their Facebook page if I had facebook...

& yes it was me who stated that I bet they want all the IP traffic..they want ALL & total control over the mountain, your own webcams on your own property (it is 100% yours) do not fit into their regime change view...

Because they are doing "stupid things" it could be a sign that they want to be forced out as they have asset striped as much as they can & therefore they want out...so get yourself forced out is a easy & cheap way...infact you will get paid to be forced out...

I surmised this way back in a post here:-

www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,81386,page=181


Also another reason why they removed your webcams, there was a few posts since 2014 when NT were stating that there are no queues etc & all is fine...they pointed their cams away ...your cams looking at the Gunbarrel etc proved otherwise & they got annoyed about it.....

Can't find the posts ATM but remember linking & posting stuff proving NT wrong...

PS another reason flagged up by some one on facebook is that NT are dong unlawful works on the mountain..& the SSC cams picked it up...NT want control

parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2017/11/26/natural-retreats-remove-winter-highland-webcam/


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13.01hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by SnowmanDave.

SimonFlory


Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 2017
Last Visited: 11:17
9th Dec 2017
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 14.32hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
On Sunday 26th I asked them this question:
"Winterhighland are stating that THEIR webcam was unlawfully removed from Service by Cairngorm Mountain Ltd / Natural Retreats on Friday 24th November 2017.
Anyone care to explain why you did this? [www.winterhighland.info]
These are incredibly useful both to see the snow cover and to assess whether it is safe enough to go onto the mountains.
With many thanks
Simon Flory"


This is the reply I got from their Guest Services person:


"Hello Simon,
We understand the concern that has been expressed about the removal of the Winter Highland webcam from the exterior of the Scottish Ski Club hut at CairnGorm Mountain. We would like to highlight that we had discussions with the Scottish Ski Club before its removal, and sought to consult with Winter Highland also. This particular webcam did not link in with the rest of the live camera feeds at CairnGorm Mountain. We fully recognise that the webcams are consulted frequently by snowsports enthusiasts to help plan their trips to CairnGorm Mountain, as they provide live updates of conditions at the resort. Our aim now will be to replace the webcam within the next week with a new one that feeds in to the rest of our systems, so that we can provide a live, accurate picture of conditions at all times on the Mountain. The relaunch of our CairnGorm Mountain App in anticipation of the winter season, will then give users full visibility of the main runs on the mountain in one easy to access location. In addition to the app, all live feeds from our webcams can be viewed at [www.cairngormmountain.org].
Many thanks
Susan
Susan Swinden
Guest Services
E: s.swinden@naturalretreats.com
D: 01479 861261
Cairngorm Ski Area, Aviemore, PH22 1RB
www.cairngormmountain.org "


My reply to them is as follows:

"Hello Susan
Firstly, from your reply you clearly DO NOT even begin to understand the concern about the damage you have done to the Winter Highland systems.

THEIR webcams looked through a window of private hut belonging to the Scottish ski club.
It isn’t your hut. You are not the Scottish ski club and you are not Winter Highland. You certainly have no business breaking into someone’s else private space and damaging their equipment.
The fact that you want to “own” all the views of the mountain and all its webtraffic is not a justification for what you have done.
You have no business trying to control what views other people broadcast of the mountain – even if, perhaps, their views might show activity which you want to remain hidden.

THEIR webcams looked at the snow/non-snow cover on the mountain and provided accurate weather data.
They also provided information which is exceedingly valuable to other people who do not ski and who are now less and less likely to spend cash in the specific business which you guys are still running for now.
The issue is not what you purport to see as your narrow business interests – it is a much wider issue which affects areas and businesses far bigger and far wider than your own ski-slopes.

What you need to do is to make a formal apology to the Scottish ski club and Winter Highland, immediately reinstate their cameras and stop trying to flannel people with PR nonsense.
There are enough people boycotting you over this and other matters already. The longer this situation persists; the more and more likely it is that the support for a different ski-resort operator will grow ever louder.
With many thanks
Simon Flory"




ralphtruman


Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2017
Last Visited: 21:23
27th Nov 2017
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 15.21hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Hello all,

Simon,
you state correctly that CML had no business "breaking in" to Scottish ski club hut.
Did they break in?

just checking.



kammy


Posts: 295
Joined: Jan 2004
Last Visited: 21:23
2nd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 15.22hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
What a lame excuse from Natural retreats, Alan have you been in touch with Scottish ski club to see their response??

roscoeh


Posts: 258
Joined: Jan 2011
Last Visited: 23:23
24th Mar 2018
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 15.43hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
This is why I go to Glenshee.

HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
What's this?What's this?What's this?
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 15.44hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Evening all, good to know the login still works .

This is in effect an internet turf war by looks of it. With physical assault on WH hardware.

My tuppence is to jot down the facts; actual events, evidence of any prior intent (phone calls), and evidence of false statements after the fact.

Then submit as a police complaint. (No action might result initially) but then you publicise the issue through portals that will make it News. The outdoors community should be alarmed, since nobody owns the views of the hills.

Closest comparison I can think of is HillTrek clothing who were wrongly targeted by National Trust... recall how quickly that was turned around ?

Do your homework and get the job done. Everybody behind you.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 15.45hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by HTH.

Doug_Bryce


Posts: 1373
Joined: Jan 2003
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 15.50hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Quote:
Did they break in?


^ A large number of people will hold a key for the White Lady hut.
So likely this was not a case of breaking and entering.

However the Scottish Ski Club hut remains owned by the members. It should not be upto Natural Retreats to demand removal of a webcam that has been in position for over a decade (... long before Cairngorm had their own webcams!).

This episode has put Scottish Ski Club in impossible situation. They will depend on historical good will from the lift operator for the lease on their hut.

Hopefully the cameras will be turned straight back on. No one likes a bully....
CML / Natural Retreats currently look *very* silly and spiteful.


[www.haggistrap.co.uk]

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Webcams
Date Posted: 16.29hrs on Mon 27 Nov 17
Doug_Bryce Wrote:
Quotegrinning smileyid they break in?

^ A large number of people will hold a key for the White Lady hut.
However the Scottish Ski Club hut remains owned by the members.
This episode has put Scottish Ski Club in impossible situation. They will depend on historical good will from the lift operator for the lease on their hut.


This is what needs to be clarified, who paid for the building, & who owns the land?

If the SSC just lease the land from NR & the building is owned wholly by SSC then that's one story..

If however the whole lot is owned by NR & leased by SCC then that's a different story.

No matter landlords have to give 14 days notice I think (I used to be one)..unless provable emergency situation. What do the deeds/tenancy agreement state?

However they are not allowed to interfere, damage, remove any of the tenants property/possessions etc unless causing provable damage to the landlords property...I'd like to see that in court...NR would lose...

Also the fact that historical prescient has been set, these cameras have been used & working & have not interfered with CGM ltd operation for how many years before NR took over & only now after 3yrs are they (NR) doing something..way too long a time period for NR to complain now...


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 16.44hrs Mon 27 Nov 17 by SnowmanDave.

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