All dependant on conditions, going down a size in winter will mean you can have a higher side wall and as they are standard tyres that little bit of extra flex/roll helps in not sliding off in cornering in snow and a higher side wall helps with what I said above in protecting the wheel..

Still don't buy the winter wheel thought process, most decent teams use a fairly closed face wheel and as far away fae touring car open face leaf on the track stop the race kinda wheel.. Would an open face not let loads of crap into the brakes too?

Cheap stuff is usually shite and that's why its cheap and all sorts are marked as rally/race so the corsa mob snap them up.. I said better than black market, which is usually better than factory prices too for the obvious reasons..

But, why run rally spec alloys wheels on a standard car? that steel in there will cause ya problems if ya hit a kerb side on. I wouldn't risk it unless I had a team of spares handy or drove like a granny just tae say hey, "I've rally wheels"

Rallying and normal driving is way different with far great stresses on shit which is why it's strong and expensive, if all the tyres rip aff they still plan on finishing that stage. Using yer brakes in the snow is pretty much the same though and not worth a shit for most of the time if trouble appears. Even in normal conditions so many folk can got outta shit by pressing the fast pedal hard.


Cheap shitty small wheels for winter unless ya wanna look good for normal cars....



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.27hrs Sat 13 Oct 18 by growwild.

Sorry but you have no idea about what wheels are out there or what the rally teams use...

Numerous big teams like the Audi group B Ur Quatro, the Toyota Celica's, Ford Cosworth's etc used five spoke rally wheels..

Like the legendary Compomotive MO5 range of five spoke alloys...

[www.comp.co.uk]

As previously used by & still used by many race, rally, Dakar etc teams


What are mine:- basically a legit cheaper copy of the Comp M05 spokes, made in UK by Rimstock & used heavily in rallying by those who can't afford the very expensive Comps above, but still require similar strength & performance.

[www.rimstock.com]

& what does it say about them?....

Pro-Race 3 is a classic motorsport 5-spoke design, employing the same advanced manufacturing processes as the entire Pro-Race range, delivering optimum lightweight characteristics. The chunky 5-spokes provide surpreme strength, whilst also allowing effective brake cooling. Proven in rallying, it's perfect for the toughest environment, where robust performance and weight saving is desired.
Classic motorsport 5-spoke
Designed and manufactured in Great Britain
Engineered to exceed the exacting German TUV quality standard

as for the summers these are mine:-

[www.rimstock.com]

Developed for motor racing, Pro-Race 1.2 is a proven winner with top teams and drivers in major international championships. Meticulously designed and manufactured to minimise weight - yet extremely strong to withstand the harsh environment of the race track.
12-spoke ultra lightweight motorsport design available for the road
Designed and manufactured in Great Britain
Engineered to exceed the exacting German TUV quality standard

the multispokes are in fact the standard wheel for the BTCC....


& the wheels above are all high grade alloy & are "low pressure" cast...NOT the rubbish low spec of "gravity" cast which the cars factory wheels are & most other factory alloys & cheap aftermarket alloys are...This is why the original factory wheels for the car were 2kg heavier each than these Rimstock made ones.


Oh & just for info there is a specific Rally design...specifically for the forest/gravel stages.

[www.rimstock.com]

..NOT ideal for the snow or the tarmac rallys….the other designs are better, however teams on a budget will use what ever they have to hand.


Just because you don't know in depth about this stuff doesn't mean other people don't know...I choose my stuff for very specific technical reasons..& not for looks, or for bragging rights etc...which you are implying that I do..& I find offensive...along with the indirectly implied statement that I am part of the cheap sh1te corsa brigade...which I find even more offensive...





---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08.40hrs Sun 14 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.

So yer talking about vintage rally cars with auld styling and not the groups with money , r&d n all that shit...

I was brought up driving mk2 escorts and saphire cossies way before I had a license, fave was a twin cam corolla that was a drift machine and the one I was allowed to abuse as it wasn't worth a fortune and was rolled before they set it up, cage n seam welded etc.. Drove the others if they weren't getting raced or rebuilt, usually supervised sadly........

My issue is you what you said about winter rally wheels which aint true..

I know the difference between tarmac wheels and ones for rally, touring car and rally is way different too.

Your last link are the only ones I'd buy for a rally, the others Id have for a track, the first ones might do if I was driving something like a corsa or fiesta..

These ain't that expensive and said tae be decent enough...

[www.braid.es]

[www.braid.es]

I'd have thought folk making wheels would have your knowledge too, better tell them they are wrong about winter design..

[www.ozracing.com] If yer serious yer over a grand a wheel, I thought you were serious with regards to the knocked off price...

Still never answered my question about sticking 'rally' spec wheels on a standard car risking hubs etc in winter, seems daft unless ta drive slow taking zero risk making it bragging rights... If i was daft and bought a lambo it would be worth half or scrap in 6 month...

I'll admit I'm not clued up on puss driving like touring cars and f1, I know touring car wheels wouldn't last a rally.....

[www.youtube.com] Here's someone telling ya about rally wheels, you got steel in yours?

I'll race ya to settle this lol

Winter wheels is still true just phone up the tech depts..they may not be speced "winter" but the design is better...I know people who have run multispoke & have problems with snow sticking ..swap to say an open five spoke..no problems...simple ..

& those wheels are strong enough for road...& way stronger than most factory alloy wheels..obviously missed the point that they meet the German TUV for alloys...

as for steel in the alloys....the only steel any alloy should have is steel inserts for the centre bore & the bolts...& that's only required for rally as they are taking the wheels of regularly...way more than you ever do on a road car....so steel inserts are not needed on a road car

BTW I could have had them made with those inserts in..as Rimstock do that to order on all the Pro race wheels which they make for rally etc..just speak to them with your requirements...


I'dont "pussy around"...but then I'm not a speed demon either...& I've had this design of wheels for 8yrs on various cars in winter no problems..& no problems with suspension...

mind you I treat my car & driving licence with respect....obviously you don't due to the offer to race me...





---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

So yer wheels are not full rally spec just based on rally wheels, aftermarket for the car park meet ups n shit?

I've no problem with that

Thought we were chatting about rally before politics got involved with the confusion of Zzzzz tracks, soo is any TUV wheel good for rally?

If rally had political parties you'd be running one on the edge of reality, propping up the main eejits for a backhander and crazy rules.

I've a standard everyday GTI and something that's set up for speed, I give them the respect they are due, if the latter had a cage I'd be running more than just decent bushes under it which need replaced a lot more than the car park mobs who buy the same stuff for their every day car.

Small cheap wheels and big winter tyres for winter is the safer option for the vast majority of drivers and me. Anything else is bollocks or a mechanic looking for earners or yer moving into sport and closed/private roads and buying shit yer not using for what it was made for if its for normal driving. That's good for you and your cash but shit advise for the majority.

Rallying is the only motorsport that relates to winter driving and our shitty roads in summer for tyre profile, some sort of skid pan and short rally course would actually make drivers better in my wee opinion.

Glencoes snow factory could set up a winter skills course in their car park bringing in some coin and publicity and then set up a snow(rocks), gravel(rocks) and a touring style hoovered tarmac track so I can whip ya in an auld banger.

And yer winter rally wheel hypothesis is full a' too many holes and not strong enough tae debate....





Edited 1 times. Last edit at 18.51hrs Sun 14 Oct 18 by growwild.

So my alloys are used in rally & designed for the strength & punishment etc....just because I chose not to have the steel insert option (not required or necessary for road cars) does not mean that I don't benefit from the same strength & design of the alloy wheel for the rally side, as its the same cast wheel that comes out of the mould...only difference is the bolt drilling & inserts which is after its cast...


& you still don't get the fact that many modern cars you can't physically fit steel wheels on....as the steel wheels will NOT fit over the brakes...

You can't get steels over MK7 Golf GTI PP or the Golf R...brakes are too big....let alone S or RS Audis currently made..or current BMW "M" cars....or many other cars.


The spec up from my car the smallest wheel you can fit is 17" alloy.....& on mine trying to find a steel wheel to fit is virtually impossible as the dish part on steel wheels is far too small & will not fit over the brakes.....so alloys are the easier option & my brakes are standard fit...not big boy racer multi piston jobs...

So winter tyres on same size summer alloy wheels is nothing new or uncommon, & in many cases is the only option.


& you still wanting to race...& in an old banger...well of course you'll beat me in an old banger...as you can thrash an old banger & not care....

My car is not an old banger & has to last at least another 6yrs so I care about it, as I can't afford to run multiple cars.

EDIT..just had another look on several main UK web sites for steel wheels...can get 16" which in theory would (just with mm to spare) clear the brake disc diameter...they still don't list for my car as the dishing of the steel leaves a smaller space..so it still would not clear the caliper/disc etc...

& my car is not fancy...


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.48hrs Sun 14 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.

I've not a problem if yer running em with no inserts, they will make decent alloys last longer though. Just don't see the point in running super strong alloys in winter, the most cautious driver can slide out or hit something the snows hiding and that could cost, fair enough if yer on the tools and get parts at trade or traded oot the back door but it aint for the majority..

Look at the profile on them [www.youtube.com] not yer normal side wall and the size is cause sometimes ya dunno whats under the snow, they'll come without studs too. I wont mention they strong alloys.....

For winter wheels for winter tyres - Cheap wheels, steel or alloy for winter and go down at least one size if possible for everything I've said, I don't think I said just use steel wheels, but they'd be the cheaper option till someone was comfortable in snow and ice or fecking about..

I'll hire a golf r race day, probably the day before so I can get used to it. Mk5 golfs are like teslas tae me, though ya could get a MK5 gti and the last of the real R and a holiday and probably turbo the r for less than any of the current lot, even more so if ya know what yer doing and have mates in the game too. A banger is car that's got for not a much and makes the consumers rage when I slow doon tae see the chicken head trying to speed their car up, makes em worse when I get a smile and a wave aff their date.. I'm far fae loaded, just sensible lol

I want a van, so if any hippy or sweaty builder with taste and some rust wants something to piss aff the wife, neighbours and get cool points aff the kids lemme know.

I'll agree profile...mine are 225mm wide with a 45 aspect so that gives me a 101mm (4 inch) tall sidewall, which is a decent amount, considering the tyre size etc...


I could get a 16" big dish alloy over the brakes (just) but then the gap between the inside rim & the caliper is very small...& it has been known for stones to stick in that gap which can & have cut into the alloy wheel & effectively cut it in two..I've seen pictures of it..not nice even if you catch it straight away, that's the alloy gouged..


So the 17" is best...considering I could order 18" or 19" rims (summers) from the factory...so running 17" is the safest small option for my car..

As for sidewall...what most people forget about is the rim width compared to the tyre width...my rims are 7" wide so about 180mm...& running a 225mm tyre means the tyre overhangs the rim by say 22mm each side. that gives you masses of protection from kerbing etc...downside is more flex on cornering...


Basically every tyre & rim size have a range of safe recommended combinations...I chose the narrowest rim recommended for the tyre width of 225mm, & that makes a huge difference as to protection etc...I see way tooo many cars with rims as wide as the tyres & the front face rim edge of the alloy is very exposed!!


Studs..don't really need them on the roads here....just get winter tyres with the three mountain peak & snowflake symbol on them...best standard there is for no studs...I've never had problems in 9yrs of running separate winter tyres...& I've hit black ice at 40mph & still remained on the road...facing the right way..sticky side down..

As for Golfs/bangers...Ive worked on many VAG cars as I do a bit of freelance mechanicing...nearly bought MK4 R32 off my mate as I was doing the work to it....new Golfs are way better....lighter nose weight & faster...ok so no V6 sound which is lovely...but better handling

Old bangers??...I'll never have...not my style....I get my cars to mint/concourse standard..my previous car when I sold it was 14yrs old...bloke who bought thought is was 4yrs old...even the MOT lot could never believe the age & had to double check it was not on a private plate..


So instead of running two cars, two mot, two tax etc..I spend the money on keeping one car in top condition...which is a battle up here as you know....mind you its a hobby...




---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11.48hrs Mon 15 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.

I've had cars with very little between the brakes and wheels and they end up noisy with shit sticking and the wheels inner gets wrecked as ya say. I pop into the forums now and again to see the dub builds and I'll admit I like the VRT etc trailer queens, what they've did and how but I still think its a waste and would never build one myself if it's too precious tae get airborne and sideways. Then theres the parts they use that are never gonnna get used, quick scoot round a car park or on a dyno at a show don't do it for me...

The golfs wheels are fairly decent BBS 16s with a lotta tyre, they need split and redone which I'll do next year, nice clean wee car standard car. I'd drop it a wee bit and stick some decent anti roll bars on it for more fun in the corners but as it is a good all rounder and better in winter than the low and wide wheeled s3 in its current form.. Both cars are clean and want for nowt, the audi just wants aw the fecking time.. Could do with a decent lip on the audi wheels, one tyre has a decent rip on the wall and they aint cheap, would rather feck the edge of a wheel than a decent tyre.

My insurance is cheap for both and were extra cheap tae buy, I know a bit and I'm lucky tae know guys n gals in the trade, mechanics and folk with jigs and spray booths lol

I could buy a real VR , get it faster and handling better and still have enough change for a holiday and a kilo of decent erb than buying a new yin out the wrapper.. Relatively cheap per bhp and I'll be too stoned tae get annoyed when its upside doon or a walls eating it, life's not for stressing over the little things..

The R should have been VR and made something like this - [www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com] Rally winters withoot studs

Meant to stick this up - [www.youtube.com] Decent enough road by the sounds of then low down and it's ice.. Easy tae tell the better drivers and what they do when they feel the car slide compared to the ones who are all brake...



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 18.48hrs Mon 15 Oct 18 by growwild.

Trouble with the VR6 & the later R3.2 version is the nose weight...weight distribution is all up front..so twisty roads & corner to corner they are heavy...having driven R32 down the A939 it was fast but felt dead...

I prefer light weight engines in the front or make it mid engine..

In fact VW did make a one off mid engine Golf & used a W12 from the Phatom/Bentley...

[www.topgear.com]

If I had the money for one toy to fling down the roads it would be an Ariel Nomad...no need for 4WD...& snow/ice is no problem either...

[www.youtube.com]

PS Ariel use the multispokes & forest/gavel alloys made by Rimstock that I linked to earlier...for their cars...

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 19.45hrs Mon 15 Oct 18 by SnowmanDave.

Turbo and add a bit of weight up back, then drive about smoking twats that have spent a fortune. Far cheaper to get power out the smaller engines tae a point though.. But smoking folk while towing a boat adds a bit of class lol

I never liked that Golf, stands out too much and reminded me of the clio that was chunky...

First I've seen of that nomad, I like they sand karts and Barracuda buggies etc as they can be built fairly cheap, just no place here tae drive em unless ya get access to land.. Welder and a few visits to the scrappy would make functional fun art - [www.youtube.com]

Picture request.

Could someone show me a picture of a modern day rally car wearing 5 spoke / open wheels during a snow rally please?

how modern??? as a quick google found this..

this is a newer Mitsu' Lancia evo

[www.wallpaperbetter.com]


plenty of cars built 10yrs ago & older...which are still rallying...

Bug-eye subaru

[www.ivannegin.com]

Colin McRae..

[www.ebay.com]

honda clubman level
[www.gettyimages.co.jp]ƒjƒ…[ƒXŽÊ^/rally-tuned-honda-turns-out-of-a-snow-bank-on-the-racetrack-at-ƒjƒ…[ƒXŽÊ^/94938447


Quite a few images of ice/snow driving schools running open 5 & 6 spoke wheels..as these cars will get shoved into the snow banks...so it clears easy for them..


The only reason they have moved way to multispoke flat face/semi covered like the forest/gavel alloy I linked to earlier is because of design for the narrow tyres...


The tyres are better now that years ago.. & most run studs, so they don't need a wide tyre, so they go narrow...they also push the alloy out as far as possible to get as wide a track, this means the rim is more flush with the face....flat face multispokes are better/lighter for narrow rims with flat faces....



---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

First pic he's probably out testing using shitty wheels incase he hits something. Cant see a co pilot..

Second pic aint even a fecking rally car...........

Third pic is the reason rally had to make stuff stronger and pretty meaty wheels compared to the first lot of evidence.

Last pic has something wong..

first picture..co-pilot helmet is visible look closer...

anyway that was just a very quick google...

& CMR...never heard of "mechanical sympathy"...LOL..

Anyway as I said previously there are reasons why in the last say 10yrs or so that the top teams etc have moved to multispokes for winter/snow alloys..


& for road cars these same reasons are not top priority...five spokes for road are still recommended on many tyre sites, etc as they are the easiest to clean in winter...

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---