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William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 18.42hrs on Mon 7 May 07
hear hear!
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 21.39hrs on Wed 9 May 07
Did yas see the signing in of the Scottish Troops in the Scottish parliment?

Woohoooo!!

Quite a few done it in Gaelic and some in Scots and then the english, but a few were saying more or less Fook The Queen!!!

We are not subjects of that boot!

Believe it or not I never joined the cubs for the very same reason, ya had tae swear allegiance tae that mut, i canne mind what age i wis, still in primary school though, pretty young but the rebel was strong in me from an early stage.... I can still mind the tarts pic being on the wall and this heafty chick(bulloo or something) telling us about the sign up and aw that and wit happens, as soon as allegiance tae the crown wis mentioned that wis me.. Stayed for the night, ma da picked me up and I telt him no chance, ma parents being parents "tried" tae get me tae go tae gie me something to do.. Ma Granda gave me a wink and let me try on his broad black brimmer!!!!!
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:43
29th Feb 2024
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 22.03hrs on Wed 9 May 07
So parliament has been adjourned till next week, wouldn't be to save Jack McConnell from being shreaded at First Ministers questions tomorrow would it?
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 22.37hrs on Wed 9 May 07
The brits might still be burning documents
HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 09.42hrs on Thu 10 May 07
If I have this right, there is a Legal Process with a prescribed Timeline. - The Presiding Officer must be appointed within a given number of days, then a First Minister, and then the Ministers of the Executive.

Although it must be completed withing 28 days in total, there are certain appointments which must be made at earlier deadlines, and this is what's occupying the SNP at the moment.

IMO, the LibDems have shown a considerable lack of Statesmanly quality, by putting a single item of self-interest, ahead of the common-good of the Parliament. they are behaving as though they are London-Ruled, and have been told by Ming that they shouldn't go into Govt with the SNP. - They have some good policy in common with the SNP, and could do better for Scotland, than with Joke McConell.
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 13.58hrs on Thu 10 May 07
RUBBISH!

The Lib Dems, before and during the election, stated they were pro-Union. The Lib Dem's policy of "doing better for Scotland" is to maintain the Union. Their manifestio was crystal clear on this. Anybody who didn't agree with that policy, but agreed with what they had in common with the SNP, were free to vote for the SNP.

It would be a dereliction of duty, and a kick in the face for Lib Dem voters, for the Lib Dems to work with the SNP, when the SNPs main, no, only goal is the breaking of the Union. Let's not pretend that the SNP are anything other than a single issue whinge.

Most people in Scotland voted AGAINST independence (because that is what this last election was about - no mistake). Roughly 18% of the electorate voted for the SNP.

With this in mind, how can working with the SNP to destroy the Union be in the common-good? What twisted logic! The Common-good would be to knock Salmond back into the long grass where the snake belongs.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 13.59hrs Thu 10 May 07 by William.
HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 14.12hrs on Thu 10 May 07
William Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RUBBISH!

=> Thanks. winking smiley

>The Lib Dem's policy of "doing better for Scotland" is to maintain the
> Union.

=> You can't risk allowing 1 policy to define your whole thinking.? - Some irony if the SNP have learned this fact, that you need a full set of policies, just as the LibDems have un-learned the same fact! - In fact the Greens are tasting feeling the pinch exactly because of this, since they are a Single-Issue Party it was easy for the main parties to marginalise them, by including their single-issue in their broader manifestos. - Ulster is what happens if you let one issue rule all your thinking!
>
> It would be a dereliction of duty, and a kick in
> the face for Lib Dem voters,

=> No time for pride to cloud the sense of what's best for the common good.

> Most people in Scotland voted AGAINST independence

=> This was not a referendum on Independence, you can't draw the above conclusion.
>
The Common-good would be to knock Salmond back into the long grass where the snake belongs.
>
==> Alex Salmond has been quite open about his policies, and his electoral mandate is as good as anybody's..?



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 14.13hrs Thu 10 May 07 by HTH.
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 14.59hrs on Thu 10 May 07
HTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was not a referendum on Independence,
> you can't draw the above conclusion.

I'm sorry, it was and I can.

To even suggest otherwise is to be blinkered from the way people actually think and vote!

The SNP repeatedly made it clear that a vote for them, and an SNP government, would bring a referendum within 4 years. This WAS their election policy. The vast majority going into the voting booths on election day knew this and voted accordingly. To pretend otherwise is a fallacy.

The SNP were, are, and will remain a single issue party. Nothing wrong with that, I would argue that most people DO vote on important single issues. I consider myself to be a staunch socialist, but I would vote Tory if it was a choice between them and the SNP.





I've come to think that there are far too many elected career politicians and far too few elected representatives in this country. In this country, we elect a Westminster MP; a European MEP; Local Councillors, County Councillors; sometimes a Parish Councillor; and in Scotland a constituency MP for Holyrood. No less than six career politicians for one single voter! All messing things up.

Get rid of them. We need far fewer career politicians. The numbers in Westminster need slashed - there need be no more than 100. Same for Holyrood. County councils, Parish councils and Borough councillors - sack them.

We do not need European MPs. Countries can send their Prime Ministers to work out treaties that truly need Europe wide agreement - the environment for example.

We need to be able to elect our Headmasters, Chief Constables, "Matrons", and Judges.

If the local police are letting yobs run free around our streets we need to be able to get rid of the Chief Constable and put in somebody who will arrest the toe-rags.

If the Judge is not willing to lock them up, we need to be able to elect a Judge that will!

If the Hospitals are dirty we need to be able to elect a matron that will clean the wards. If the local schools are failing we need to be able to sack the teachers.

Every four years there can be a simple vote with Policemen, Judges and Health workers telling us how they will make our local services better. And we can decide. I want Chief Constables fearing for their pension because they are not catching the theiving, yobbish bastards that are running out streets. They can change things, politicians cannot.


Give power to the people, but REALLY give Power To The People.

RANT OVER



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 15.01hrs Thu 10 May 07 by William.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:43
29th Feb 2024
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 15.43hrs on Thu 10 May 07
Quote:
HTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was not a referendum on Independence,
> you can't draw the above conclusion.

I'm sorry, it was and I can.


You can draw whatever conclusions you like William, but you are wrong.

The election process in the UK is not about the constitution, its not about who should be first minister or prime minister, its about choosing an MP or MSPs to represent your local patch - nothing more or less.

Quote:
It would be a dereliction of duty, and a kick in the face for Lib Dem voters, for the Lib Dems to work with the SNP,


Quite definately not the case, a very sizable number of people who voted Lib Dem with at least one vote did so seeking an outcome of a Nationalist/Lib Dem administration, and I know plenty of people that did.

The Lib Dems stance in this election has been bizzare and is almost certainly why it's share of the vote took a knock in its strongest areas, it's almost certainly being driven by the UK party and this should not be the case. Ming is trying to suck up to Labour to prepare for government in Westminster in the next couple of years.

The Liberal Democrats are a federalist party, and until Ming the useless came along was fairly widely regarded as a quassi-nationalist party - partly because there is little real hope of building a truly federal UK. Independence has a higher backing amongst grass roots Lib Dems than any other party. I recall Jim Wallace ending a speach with the words "time to stuff the union" - hardly unionist?



Edited 2 times. Last edit at 15.54hrs Thu 10 May 07 by alan.
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 15.54hrs on Thu 10 May 07
I've a funny feeling the libs and labour are only going to try and hold Scotland back for the next 4 years and go out their way to make SNP look bad, thats all i'm picking up from them... Have they an interest in Scotland and whats happening or are they just out for thmselves?

Along with what Willaim said about giving the power people:

I have always thought aboot this, we should be be able tae vote on everything, as like the when the murdering brits went and killed aw those Iraqis for nothing.. We should all have a pin number or something and be able to vote on things that affect us and our country... I'm not really happy about letting these politions decide very important things on our behalf when most of them are full of shit.. But now the might SNP are in they should be able to make the right decision for me and my country as they have no interest or are controlled by a foreign country.. But ya never know money-power talks most of the time...



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 15.55hrs Thu 10 May 07 by growwild.
William


Posts: 523
Joined: Mar 2004
Last Visited: 08:32
12th Apr 2008
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 15.55hrs on Thu 10 May 07
alan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can draw whatever conclusions you like
> William, but you are COMPLETELY WRONG here.

In theory you are correct, but in practice, not so. It's hard to argue against what you said being not true, on paper, but you have to admit it is not true in practice!

Did you vote for whoever you felt would be best for you local constituency, or Scotland?

In a general election we elect MPs at a constituency level to form a national government. Do you think Gordon Brown spends more time worrying about UK fiscal policy or his constituents?

Has Salmond spent the last few days sorting out his constituents or sorting our a government?

People at a General Election vote for who they want in Government. Their vote is based on what that potential Government promises to do.

Occasionally, there are single issue, "keep the hospitals open" candidates that are voted in on purely constituent reasons.

But it is rare.

Maybe you vote for individual constituents MPs at election time. Maybe you did this time, but I tell you for nothing, most people vote for a PARTY that they hope to form a government.
alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
Last Visited: 19:43
29th Feb 2024
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 15.56hrs on Thu 10 May 07
Quote:
SNP are in


Hate to point out the fact, but Jack McConnell is First Minister ! winking smiley
alan


Posts: 10768
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 16.03hrs on Thu 10 May 07
William, you can't argue that people vote to elect a government not an individual MP/MSP, then also argue that the election was a referendum on Independence!

FWIW I think the Lib Dems should go to the SNP and say we will support a referendum bill providing the referendum is held in 2007 and that the Executive will formally be neutral in the campaign, with parties, or groups within the parties doing the campaigning.

This would settle the arguement for the remainder of this term and whether it was a no or yes vote would remove any potential for the SNP to play games with Westminster to strengthen the case for a vote in 2010.

Lib Dems should take note that seats in what was their Highland stronghold are gradually slipping away to the SNP.
growwild


Posts: 3550
Joined: Oct 2005
Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 16.06hrs on Thu 10 May 07
[www.isn.ethz.ch]

This has a wee bit aboot the lib dems and there union bit...

William Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>most people vote for a PARTY that they hope to form a government.
-------

Yip, power tae the people, who got the most votes? Power tae the people....

I wonder aboot aw those spoiled voted were SNP tae,, ye cannae trust the brits, history show's that!!
HTH


Posts: 3210
Joined: Nov 2005
Last Visited: 11:13
20th Feb 2018
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Re: Election 2007
Date Posted: 16.56hrs on Thu 10 May 07
William Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to argue against what you said being
> not true, on paper, but you have to admit it is
> not true in practice!
>
> Did you vote for whoever you felt would be best
> for you local constituency, or Scotland?
>

William, William !!...Wasn't that exactly the purpose of the 2-vote system?

You were able to endorse a local candidate, AND separately vote for the regional/national outcome.

Alan is correct that the whole point of a PR system, so beloved by the LibDem Party, is that it promotes coalition style government. - Everybody who voted SNP or LibDem, did so with the anticipation of a coalition.

Only Labour might have once hoped to have absolute majority under PR. - And the Conservatives surely never expected anything other than opposition benches.

Nicol Stephen is looking like a gutless leader...He's done half the job, ruling Labour out, but lacks the courage to do the right thing with the SNP. - A very disappointing Lack-of-Moral-Fibre.
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