Dual the A9. It's the main tourist access route into the (Central and North) Highlands. Any improvements that enable more cash spending holidaymakers to take better advantage of Scotland's prime industry has to be seriously preferred to making journeys around Edinburgh less taxing. ( Yes holiday makers will use this route from/to the airport but a much smaller percentage)
Also as has been said above the A9 will become safer with more dualling and therefore lives will be saved.

Paul

dhorsley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> William the last time I saw the aftermath of
> something similar - the oil or gas pipeline near
> stonehaven there was a large amount of damage that
> is taking several years to return to something
> approaching its prior state and that wasn't in the
> much more delicate upland situation for the
> powerline.
>

I'm not saying that the opportunity to screw things up is not there!

But the cable can be laid and re-instated with minimal damage. Okay - you say it can several years. I know it could be done A LOT quicker than that - especially if the new SNP led parliament have the balls and the teeth to ensure it does! I'm not sure why it has to be laid along a "delicate" route. If the decision is taken to underground it - and that is the only sane decision - then a much more environmentally sound route could be agreed upon.

Maybe this could be a test for the SNP - can they follow the lead of countries like Denmark that are modernizing undergrounding their grid? We have a precious and unique landscape - will the SNP value that, and insist that private companies making billions of pounds of clear profit do not despoil that landscape? The technology and engineering skills are there. Is the will?

William Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends on the type of cable!
>
> Modern XLPE cable isn't that big - about the the
> diameter of your arm. The cross section area of a
> conductor is dependent on the current it is
> carrying, not the voltage - which is (one) reason
> transmission lines use high voltages. To keep the
> size of the conductors as small as possible, and
> keep costs down.
-----------------------

Cheers, i thought ye were talking aboot big huge things, why does the excavation have tae be so big for a cable that thick then? Ma granda could get a few hunner metres a day put in wi a pick n shovel.

It's the space between the cables for insualtion and the size of the joints.

Joints are a weak point in any cable and need to be sufficiently insulated. The excavation area around the joints would be big, the cable trenches themselves not so big!

Of course, the number of joints would be dependent on how long the cables can be manufactured and supplied on drums.

To be honest, I have never seen a 400kv cable joint and am basing my experience on 132kv joints.

Underground 400kv cables are not common in this country, we don't like spending money!

Another good point in favour of undergrounding is once the cable is no longer needed (there is a lot of concern amongst many opponents of the line that it is temporary) is that afterwards you can just switch it off and leave it there! Can't do that with 100s of pylons. Well, you can, but it would look shit. Rotting, rusting towers!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 23.32hrs Fri 1 Jun 07 by William.

There would be a transit van pulling a caravan wi the cable tied tae the 5 berth yanking it oot the ground, as soon as it wis switched aff.

copper costs 5 grand a tonne now! (shortage and the Chinese are buying it all. And copper is VERY heavy - a tonne is not a lot).

Nearly every week the Gypos are breaking into our 33/11 Substations and theiving all the earth bonding copper. One died in Sheffield a few months back - got too close to the live bars. (shame.....)

Last month they got even braver - they switched off an entire spur and cut the overhead cables down and stole them!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 23.33hrs Fri 1 Jun 07 by William.

How much the gibberish fools getting on one hit?

William Wrote:
"you can, but it would look shit. Rotting, rusting towers!"


A bit like the view whilst skiing at Cairngorm then...

(Had to get Cairngorm mentioned on another thread!)




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apartments to rent in Bansko, Bulgaria at [www.pirin-mountains.com]

William Wrote:
"you can, but it would look shit. Rotting, rusting towers!"

But you probably wouldn't as the towers and particularly the cable (as already mentioned) would have scrap value and you would make it a planning condition that they are removed at the end of their life. Much more likely to be enforceable as SSE (or its succesor) is likely to still be in business at the time.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree Dave.

There are valid arguments on both sides but I sincerely hope that the power cables are buried.

William Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we are going to have to agree to disagree
> Dave.
>
> There are valid arguments on both sides but I
> sincerely hope that the power cables are buried.

If they are buried I'd want to see them buried along a different route. I don't think it will happen though as the cost is too high. At 7 times the cost of the overhead route SSE aren't going to be able to make a return without increasing the access charges for using the grid very significantly for the generators. The knock on would be that the renewables wouldn't be economic so wouldn't be built so no need for the upgraded powerline.

So I think the choice is if people want more renewable power in the highlands and islands for export to the central belt and england then we will have to put up with the overhead powerline.

Dave

the A9 doesnt need to be dualling all the way up would be a waste of money. number of times i travel up every weekend in the winter i see the road empty and cars hurtling up the road 70 to 90 mph plus. yes in the summer its a pain but there are stretches that should be upgraded. there are alot of accidents due to people speeding and overtaking in stupid places because they cant wait the 1 mile to the dual carriageway!
Id like to see more regular trains traveling up north.
as for the trams as a resident of Edinburgh Im divided as to whether or not its a good thing. personnally i like to see more investment in the bus service first. but we need to look at getting the tram system in as fuel in 50 yrs time will be very expensive and envirnomentally the trams would be better than upgrading the A9.
How many of you guys live in edinburgh are against the trams?

Then again, there's often the two or three of numbnuts who'll drive so close behind the car going at 50 mph that safe overtaking is impossible anywhere other than the dual-carriageway and even when they get there those same numbnuts will hog the overtaking lane at 65 mph for the whole stretch. I saw it today on the way back from Edinburgh when I nearly witnessed a head-on. The cretins 'closed the gap' even tighter forcing the overtaker to pass three cars in the face of oncoming traffic.

Traffic policing should also pay attention to those drivers driving within the law but likely to be the cause of accidents themselves.

" there are alot of accidents due to people speeding and overtaking in stupid places because they cant wait the 1 mile to the dual carriageway! "

chrisski Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the A9 doesnt need to be dualling all the way up
> would be a waste of money.

Agree - Dualling it as far as Pitlochry would be enough, with the addition of a few more dualled areas to ease the jams north of Dalwhinnie.

100% Against the Edinburgh Trams! You do not solve congestion by putting more traffic on the roads!

Thumbs up to the A9 Dueling!

As for the pylon upgrade, this is one of those issues where you just can't win! 60% of Europe's potential wind (and wave) power is in the Highlands. In order to harness the potential an upgrade of the power network is required.

Are you green or not?

Wind turbines = 'spoils the view'
Nuclear power = 'We can't have that'
Fossil fuels = 'Climate change'

It is exactly this sort of attitude that the hill walkers uses to stop us developing skiing. 'you'll spoil the view'.... to them I say there are about 300 other Munroes for you to climb.

This planet is doomed!

Andy (BSc hons Environmental management and technology)