Great report, thanks Firefly. Looking at the mountain forecast it is just possible Aonach Mor will survive. After todays rain it looks like a couple of days of heavy snow showers which should drift to a decent depth at the snowpatch site, maybe even enough to last till winter proper arrives. Given that by tomorrow afternoon it should be covered in new snow We'll probably never know if the patch melted completely today or not.

My housemate was on top of the Ben yesterday and reported a thin covering of fresh snow on the summit so maybe some made it down to help the patch out there.

If snow were to arrive tomorrow that covered it then I'd say it'll survive: but it will have to be a decent coating. If it doesn't get a nice thick coating then it'll be gone in a few days of miler weather. I'm certain of that.

moffatross, what hill held snow 'til June in your part of the world? I flew over the Borders in early May and the only patch I saw was on Merrick. I didn't see all of the hills around St Mary's Loch, so perhaps I missed a couple? If there were snow-patches 'til June then they must have been big in early May, making it odd I didn't see them. If you could let me know then I'd be very interested.

firefly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> moffatross, what hill held snow 'til June in your
> part of the world? I flew over the Borders in
> early May and the only patch I saw was on Merrick.
> I didn't see all of the hills around St Mary's
> Loch, so perhaps I missed a couple? If there were
> snow-patches 'til June then they must have been
> big in early May, making it odd I didn't see them.
> If you could let me know then I'd be very
> interested.

-------------------------------------------------------

It's the hills slightly west of St Mary's Loch that catch the snow best but if you were getting a good view of Merrick, you wouldn't really be getting the best view of the Moffat Hills as the Galloway Hills are 50 miles away. I've been looking for some photos I took w/e 25th May when out fishing at Meggett which zoomed in on a couple of snow patches at about 700 meters back of Lochcraig Head. I know that for sure as that fishing trip was the weekend after I'd been for a walking/camping weekend with my lads in the Lake District and I was surprised there were snow patches here when none were visible around Buttermere in the Lakes.

In reality then, those snow patches might not have lasted another weekend but I like to think they did and some lucky hillwalker made a slush snowball in the South of Scotland in June.

There are also a good few corries that hold the snow well and the attached pictures taken 12th April show a couple of them.





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Thanks, Ross.

I'll bear that in mind for next year. I remember a few years ago (2001 I think) seeing a patch of snow on the Ochils in June as I was driving from Stirling to Perth, but didn't realise snow could persist so long in the Moffat hills. I assumed that Merrick or Broad Law would hold snow the longest.

Glad to be corrected!

moffatross - Am curious, have you ever done any backcountry down this way? Is it even possible?

I have recently moved to D&G and am wondering if I have any alternatives to the 4 hour drive up north to go for a slide this season...

firefly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, Ross.
>
> I'll bear that in mind for next year. I remember
> a few years ago (2001 I think) seeing a patch of
> snow on the Ochils in June as I was driving from
> Stirling to Perth, but didn't realise snow could
> persist so long in the Moffat hills. I assumed
> that Merrick or Broad Law would hold snow the
> longest.
>
> Glad to be corrected!

--------------------------------------------------------

Cheers Firefly and I wouldn't say you were corrected because in general, we get a lot more rain than snow and consolidating layers are rare as most of the previous snowfall except the cornices etc usually gets washed away before the next lot comes along The remaining snow patches I saw were probably no bigger than say 10-15 ft across anyway and I don't think there were any past March the previous winter. There must be enough general snow cover around most winters though as there are Mountain Hares about. I'll try to take photos of patches for 2009 though.


alice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> moffatross - Am curious, have you ever done any
> backcountry down this way? Is it even possible?
>
> I have recently moved to D&G and am wondering
> if I have any alternatives to the 4 hour drive up
> north to go for a slide this season...

--------------------------------------------------------

Where are you ? It must be west of Dumfries if you are looking at 4 hours but it would be easier for you to get to some of D&G's prettiest hills like Merrick etc.

I think there's lots of options when the snow's about, you've just got to get out there quickly before it gets washed away. I did my first local sliding on Broad Law after getting some Fritschis / skins / ski boards in April this year, a couple of pics here ...

[www.geograph.org.uk]
[www.geograph.org.uk]

Winter last, I trudged up to Loch Skeen [i15.tinypic.com] where there is Lochcraig 801 m (right hand side of picture) and White Coomb 821m (middle left hand side) and all just 7 miles away from Moffat but I turned back for lack of daylight. That's now on my to do list for this winter with an earlier start.

It is a nice way of exploring the hills in winter and I've seen a few other photos around the web of folk skiing the hills down this way. I emailed this person a while back who's got a page on his website about ski touring in D&G but not had a reply yet. Here's a few of his ideas ...

[www.johnbiggar.com]

I've always been happy to do the drive north (2.5 hrs to Glencoe from Moffat) and as long as I can still afford it and there's good cover on the lift-served hills then that will still make up most of my skiing in Scotland because even if my children had their own ski gear, they wouldn't walk up any hills with me (lazy little b.....ds).










Edited 2 times. Last edit at 09.04hrs Tue 21 Oct 08 by moffatross.

Check out Alan Kimbers site - some photos from a trip round the eastern cairngorms last thursday - in the photo of Loch Avon and Shelterstone, is it fanciful thinking on my part or is that the remains of GUB just visible?
Answers on a postcard...............!
p.s. any gen on the Ben Nevis patch anyone?

moffatross - Cheers for the response and great pics!

Definitely keen to do some exploring down this way when there is snow about, although I probably will still opt for uplift the majority of the time. I am SW of Dumfries near New Abbey, so if you're 2.5hrs to Glencoe from Moffat must be just under 3.5hrs for me...not too bad I suppose!

Da kishman i have the aforementioned gen from the Ben.

This morning was ideal for the annual slog up Observatory gully to check on the remaining snow with bright dry conditions and only a fresh breeze to cool me down as i headed up to the first stop at the C.I.C hut which had 2 tradesmen working on the final phase of this iconic buildings extension.

From here things got interesting as i went through the snowline and had a lot of slippery rock to cover before it got a little easier as i was able to pick a line up some slightly firmer drifts further up the main gully but despite this i still spent the majority of the ascent using my hands up this very steep approach to the snowbed,unusually there was not a breath of wind as i reached the remaining snow at 1030.

Waffling over, here are the facts and figures-There is 1 large patch 16mtr across,top to base is 15mtr in the centre but it has forks each side of this which taper of another 3mtr or so.It is at least 2.5mtr deep in parts and also has a large hollow in the middle which would see this patch split in 2 in any major thaw. To the right is a tiny thin patch L=5mtr,B=2mtr,D=.3mtr.Further up and just visible in a photo i'm sure there is a round shaped patch but it's hard to confirm due to the fresh snow.

On a hunch i slipped and bruised my ass round to the base of Point 5 and discovered lying buried under fresh snow -old snow!!! This solitary patch was 4mtr across,2mtr long and .5mtr deep.At this location snow was thigh deep in places.

So, 2 surprises this year,can Point 5 and g.u.b on MacDui defy the odds and survive?......................







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Point 5 pics

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Supreme effort coaster - nice one!!! Very impressive to see the .5 patch has survived. Will be interesting to see how savage the thaw is on thursday, and indeed the forecast for saturday sounded wet, windy and mild too. No matter how savage the mild weather is, hopefully it'll be too short lived to destroy the small remaining patches - here's hoping anyway!

Agreed ,tomorrow won't be pleasant but the snow is rock hard and there will be a swift return to cooler conds on Fri. After more rain on Sat indications are that things may settle down which would be ideal.

This would be spot on

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Ross,Alice,

Back in March 2006 I hiked up my local hill Queensberry (697m) and had a good wee slide back down. I have a small report and a couple of pictures on my site.
I have also been up both Hartfell and White Comb for a slide in previous years.
Will be hoping to get out on the Moffat hills this winter.[www.smcwilliam.co.uk]

coaster, outstanding!

I am reminded of my mid-November slog up to Aonach Mor in 2007! Also our slog up there in late August, lamenting the size of the patch compared to 2007, seems not to have been so sad is it now appears. Wonderful to see point 5 still hanging in there, and the 16m x 15m patch at Observatory is looking good for survival this year, hopefully.

The forecast for the next few days isn't good, but cooler weather forecasted at the weekend.

I've kept a couple of days holiday in the bag for mid-November. Perhaps we'll scramble up one last time?!

GUB on Macdui should now be fairly well covered (thanks, Adam!), and GCM also with a good top-up.

As it stands, 3 at GCM, 1 at GUBeag, 1 on Aonach Beag, 3 on Ben Nevis and a tiny one on Aonach Mor makes 9. Aonach Mor won't last any sustained spell of thawing, though. Fingers crossed.