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tim1mw


Posts: 700
Joined: Nov 2006
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 22.08hrs on Tue 9 Oct 18
Catching up on this thread, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that some way to patch up the funicular for the upcoming season is found, right now it's the only game in town so love it or hate it, it needs to run.

I agree with many here that a Glenmore gondola (or Funitel) is what should have been built in the first place and is still a good solution. What worries me is that if the funicular is condemned or only patched up temporarily, this may taint the idea of "grand schemes" for Cairngorm, good or bad. As long as the funicular was running the politicians would always find ways to support it and pour good money after bad. No funicular, nothing to support.

Also, if the funicular is completely shot, then you are looking at having to build a viable replacement during a single summer season in 2019, so any such grand schemes would be discarded on the grounds that they can't be delivered in the time frame. Since lift installations are normally planned several years in advance, presumably with orders being placed well ahead too, you may well have to pay over the odds for new kit to have it in place that quickly, or get lucky on the second hand market. At that point, you're looking at a minimalist off the shelf solution, aka a 2 stage quad chair up the Cas and White Lady, perhaps with pull down hoods for bad weather. The fact that a new chairlift would have a positive association with the successful upgrade of the Cairnwell and soon to be installed Glencoe plateau chair, would make it politically easier to agree.

Then you push for "phase 2" Ciste chairs on the grounds that the funicular failure has demonstrated that redundant non-surface access to the Ptarmigan is desirable, perhaps taking out the WWP at the same time.

If those schemes are successful, then you might be able to restore the faith of the politicians and build a long term case for a Glenmore gondola, going all the way to the Ptarmigan, but you pitch it as a replacement for the car park T-bar and M1 poma.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 22.15hrs Tue 9 Oct 18 by tim1mw.

jabuzzard


Posts: 885
Joined: Jan 2010
Last Visited: 11:02
16th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 07.26hrs on Wed 10 Oct 18
tim1mw Wrote:
Catching up on this thread, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that some way to patch up the funicular for the upcoming season is found, right now it's the only game in town so love it or hate it, it needs to run.


I am not sure. A total failure of the system and the ensuing crisis could well be the only way to get actual change on the hill. If they can patch it up and fumble along with there current hair brained schemes of a bigger restaurant and dry slope then I fear that all we will see is the long term decline as good money is thrown after bad to keep a white elephant going in order to save face of those involved.

In summary perhaps some short term pain to ensure longer term gain is what the doctor ordered.

Note I doubt that a new lift(s) could be put in for winter of 2019 due to planning delays and I suspect a public inquiry.em

Had the chairs in the ciste not been axed last summer, you could with some effort have got them back into operation for this winter. The heads of those responsible for this wanton act of vandalism need to roll.

youngfox


Posts: 11
Joined: Apr 2006
Last Visited: 18:45
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 15.39hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
Any Gondola or Funitel better be self funding as any more public money going into Cairngorm would be a disgrace beyond comprehension. The other ski areas could do with some further help and are better run. Even getting Wyvis a funicular so we had another ski area would be a better investment. No more HIE/HRC or public money to Cairngorm. They have had enough. While I am sorry for local Aviemore business, I didn't see any money coming to West Coast business when we had a run of bad seasons and when lifts hardly ran. Enough is enough.

alan


Posts: 10768
Joined: Nov 1994
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.15hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
youngfox Wrote:
Any Gondola or Funitel better be self funding as any more public money going into Cairngorm would be a disgrace beyond comprehension. The other ski areas could do with some further help and are better run. Even getting Wyvis a funicular so we had another ski area would be a better investment. No more HIE/HRC or public money to Cairngorm. They have had enough. While I am sorry for local Aviemore business, I didn't see any money coming to West Coast business when we had a run of bad seasons and when lifts hardly ran. Enough is enough.


The sentiment is understandable, but there is the issue of a Section 50 agreement. If the Funicular isn't repaired and can't run, there is a legal requirement on HIE as landowner to remove it and associated ski area infrastructure.

That will require a hefty 8 figure sum of public money, estimated for total removal of the ski area range from £30m to £50m, primarily for the funicular due to method of construction.



alan


Posts: 10768
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.17hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
This is quite a lengthy press release that says little, but reading between the lines it would appear the Funicular will not operate this winter season:

[www.cairngormmountain.co.uk]

remote_patrol


Posts: 1013
Joined: Apr 2007
Last Visited: 22:53
20th Apr 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 16.49hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
yeah that's sounding a little too optimistic IMO

hope it works out for the sake of everyone depending on it for their livelyhoods and sliding, but i think Jabuzzard may have a point above.

TroutWrestler


Posts: 162
Joined: Jan 2006
Last Visited: 18:01
16th Feb 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 17.04hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
Maybe throwing enough snow factories at it will be a solution?

"A key component of the plan will be the potential to utilise snow making equipment at lower levels, making the mountainside accessible for beginners, and reducing congestion in other high traffic areas."

If the lower slopes can be covered in enough snow to maintain surface uplift with built in redundancy - essentially Daylodge & WWP and Fiacaill & M1 we will all be fine (except my 5yo who I don't think is ready for the M1/WWP yet.)

They have suspended season pass sales though...

I am still concerned that I have purchased Season Passes for the family which will be useless for the kids, and hence useless for me, as I can't go skiing without taking the kids with me.

I didn't buy a Season Pass to access the Storehouse Cafe, a Christmas Market or a Nature Trail.

I wonder if ASSA can step in to provide alternative uplift options?

paraffin


Posts: 580
Joined: Mar 2007
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 17.41hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
Apologies for not reading through all the posts but . . .


Dear Contractor and Structural Engineer,

Subject: Defective works funicular railway

It been a few years since we spoke but we have noticed a wee defect in your work.
Let’s talk.

Meanwhile I’ve got a load of key board warriors chipping in with various solutions from artificial snow, reversing climate change, brown paper & string, public execution of the HIE etc.

Yours faithfully

Red-faced faceless Public Servant

PS
Personally I feel all that is needed is a few tubes of JB Weld.

PPS
I am currently inviting expressions of interest to tender for works comprising the removal of Cairngorm Mountain lift infrastructure circa. £12m.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 18.27hrs Thu 11 Oct 18 by paraffin.

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 18.36hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
alan Wrote:
This is quite a lengthy press release that says little, but reading between the lines it would appear the Funicular will not operate this winter season:



The quote from NR is hysterical:-

Ewan Kearney of Natural Retreats said:
“There is no doubt that this is going to be a challenging season, but we have operated skiing without the funicular in prior winters;"

Please remind me....which winter has the funicular been shut down the whole season??...

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

alan


Posts: 10768
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 20.17hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
Well they did operate for 40 seasons prior to the Funicular... but CairnGorm has never gone into the season with only surface tows for uplift (at least not since commercial operations begun in December 1961 - we'll leave aside various rope tows and temporary contraptions that were tried prior to that)!



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 21.05hrs Thu 11 Oct 18 by alan.

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 20.23hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
alan Wrote:
Well the did operate for 40 seasons prior to the Funicular... but CairnGorm has never gone into the season with only surface tows for uplift (at least not since commercial operations begun in December 1961 - we'll leave aside various rope tows and temporary contraptions that were tried prior to that)!


Yes but his statement is a half truth.....

They have operated for some days without the funicular..but remember the chaos...

This is for the whole season...

& back then prior to the funicular we had two big chairs to the top section..one removed when they built the funicular..the other abandoned & chopped up in the past few years...

what do we have now??..feck all

oh wait we have one poma..

---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

kammy


Posts: 295
Joined: Jan 2004
Last Visited: 21:23
2nd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 21.00hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
I am very disappointed with CG attitude, are they taking the piss out of the public with huge amounts of public money being injected into CG misused, question is why the hell did they remove those chairlifts which could have been a life saver, I feel sorry whoever goes to CG depending on snow cover is going be stuck on useless lifts trying to get top of the hill, when most of the time top bowls retain snow sure cover for most of the season.

alan


Posts: 10768
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29th Feb 2024
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Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 21.16hrs on Thu 11 Oct 18
Even if EK was referring to times that the Funicular hasn't operated rather than pre the opening of the Funicular, these cases of fairly prolonged non operation of the FUnicular in winter such as almost the whole February 2014 for example were due to track burial in huge snow winters.

Low level snow was thus not a problem for access to mid-station. Of course getting to mid-station is only part of the problem, there are 3 tows from the Coire Cas Carpark, but only 1 from the mid-station area to the Top Station in each Coire.

These 2 lifts (M1 and West Wall Pomas) happen to be the two steepest lifts on the mountain with the main on mountain facilities located at the top of them where they converge. That's a recipe for complete chaos as those who really shouldn't be anywhere near the WWP and M1 Poma try and make it to the Top Basin and Ptarmigan.

The timing of this evenings press statement wouldn't have anything to do with a planning committee meeting in Boat of Garten tomorrow would it? eye rolling smiley

Hipennine


Posts: 1061
Joined: Dec 2005
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 07.43hrs on Fri 12 Oct 18
I found this paragraph interesting:

"Charlotte Wright, Chief Executive of Highlands and Islands Enterprise, said:

“We’re delighted to have such strong support from the local business community and other public organisations, all of whom are committed to working in partnership for the benefit of the whole area. As well as addressing the current, urgent situation, there was also a strong appetite to look to the longer term, and work towards a shared vision for Cairngorm and Strathspey as a leading ski centre."

Is this a subtle policy change by HIE, and now recognising the prime importance of the winterports market vs cake-hunters and blue-rinse?

SnowmanDave


Posts: 186
Joined: Dec 2013
Last Visited: 12:36
3rd Mar 2021
Re: CairnGorm Funicular - Operation stopped as safety precaution
Date Posted: 08.05hrs on Fri 12 Oct 18
alan Wrote:
Even if EK was referring to times that the Funicular hasn't operated rather than pre the opening of the Funicular, these cases of fairly prolonged non operation of the FUnicular in winter such as almost the whole February 2014 for example were due to track burial in huge snow winters.

Low level snow was thus not a problem for access to mid-station. Of course getting to mid-station is only part of the problem, there are 3 tows from the Coire Cas Carpark, but only 1 from the mid-station area to the Top Station in each Coire.

These 2 lifts (M1 and West Wall Pomas) happen to be the two steepest lifts on the mountain with the main on mountain facilities located at the top of them where they converge. That's a recipe for complete chaos as those who really shouldn't be anywhere near the WWP and M1 Poma try and make it to the Top Basin and Ptarmigan.

The timing of this evenings press statement wouldn't have anything to do with a planning committee meeting in Boat of Garten tomorrow would it?


That's the point when it was closed we had top down to car park coverage of snow..which is not guaranteed for the whole season..or even any season.


Secondly re the pomas, I mentioned one only..you mentioned two....

If you are at the carpark & want to reach the top bowl...most of the time it is only the M1 that can be used due to snow cover etc....

Also to get over to the West wall from Fiacall/Corie Cas impossible..& this is the main area....so you basically 100% reliant on the M1 poma to carry out all the uplift from the carpark..thus how soon before the poma fails due to greater than normal usage?...

As for the planning of the dry ski slope....just don't go there...I personally think the whole thing has been set up...especially as the structural report was done a couple of years ago & only now are they going "oh look we have problems"....


Basically turn the whole area into a "shopping destination with "experience""....just the USA way of doing things...make loads of money with little effort...theme park style....


I said way at the beginning when NR got the contract that they were an asset stripping company & speculated on some of the future problems...& they have exceeded even my thoughts....


Next HIE will have to take over & there will be a huge black hole in CGML bank account....& if they don't watch it they may find that NR has mortgaged/borrowed on the assets (plant/building etc) of CGML so the banks will need paying off...

its a total mess...& the blame is all HIE..they screwed up the initial funicular design/contracts & the ensuing stupid legal stuff re the operation which restricted it...& then they think that NR are wonderful & give them the contract to run it...


---That was not a fall, I intended to do that!---

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